3/9 Incident Debrief [OFFICIAL]

What a rush. The policy thread was closed but I think we all need some time and space to reflect upon just what happened. It was a whirlwind of decisions that unfolded, but ultimately the ‘d-word’ was rolled back. Will future changes be taken with more care? Is this how it will be? Let’s have a calm and civilized discussion.


Will future changes be taken with more care?

Ultimately, I doubt so. CM’s entire policy is discussed “internally” behind closed doors by a bunch of managers who barely interact with their community as is, and the basically never play the game anymore.
They never gave a damn about what the community says and they only change their fuckups when there’s massive backlash, even if this may sound mean.


The word r***** shouldn’t be banned. I saw people celebrating “winning” over this because grim gave some scraps, but it really isn’t a win.

  1. The people who pushed it aren’t about to stop running the community
  2. They are not indicating in any way that they’re actually growing in a positive direction from this (albeit, it’s still early…)
  3. They only relented because of a nigh on populist revolt (and the subtext there is, ‘because it begins to threaten their power/status in the community’ sorry to be pragmatic but that’s reality).
  4. Only “deltard” is allowable, we still have 95% of the weight of the absurd speech policing in place.

Nothing’s really changed, the policy they pushed through is still in full effect, just slightly less absurd than it was. Now, I don’t think it’s a purposeful thing that was done, but this is genuinely a psychological technique called Door-in-the-face technique - Wikipedia

We’re in what I would call a little mini cold war between upper management (both regular staff and devs/maintainer upper management) vs everyone else. There is just this pervasive animosity and resentment you can almost feel and this situation didn’t resolve it.

If we start seeing a relaxation of speech policing, more openness and transparency, and a more cavalier, laissez-faire attitude, then… maybe? I would be very surprised though.

In essence, I’d love to be proven wrong, but they basically got what they wanted and sacrificed nothing but their reputation and respectability for it - and even with that in mind, the lack of transparency means we aren’t sure who all keeps pushing for these kinds of policies, so you almost have to paint the entire staff with the same brush. Or to put that another way, the people pushing this hide behind the rest of staff who don’t care/aren’t involved.

It’s just proving to me that all this secrecy, the lack of openness from who is writing up policy, to whether anyone even glances at the community’s PR feedback, is only enabling and abetting abuse, intentional or not.


Where to go from here

I think a proactive and productive end result from this would be a discussion on how to solve the lack of transparency and openness, and how to re-involve the community in decisions, and then implement that.

Frankly, I don’t want to see CM run like a democracy, but a tyrannical despotic staff who ignore the pleas of their people isn’t any better, either.

Here’s two things I think would be improvements:

  1. Policy changes get posted for community feedback and pass/fail sanity checks BEFOREHAND
  2. All PR’s are automatically posted to the PR Feedback forum for discussion

Ultimately, this doesn’t directly resolve things, because at the end of the day you need people in charge to be competent: Listen to the playerbase, implement things that are good, avoid things that are bad. If that’s not possible, if you can’t have competence in charge, then you quite literally cannot fix anything.

But what these two things will do is at least put words onto paper, make it more transparent who is doing what, whether anyone in charge is paying attention to anything on the ground, and give the community outlets to express both dissatisfaction and constructive feedback.

An actual thread by staff about improving the transparency and openness of their bureaucracy and soliciting ideas and feedback from everyone is probably the bare minimum that should be done.

Edit: Also it’s a sad state of affairs that threads like this are getting posted into acid goop because of how often they get removed/deleted in more appropriate places. The staff have routinely treated the playerbase like a joke to the point that serious community discussion first hits the joke forum before anywhere else. It’s an indication that everyone knows staff don’t take anything the playerbase wants seriously.


I agree with you.


I took a stand. Bourbon was involved.


If you’ve been here long you’d know whatever CM goes through, be it from this incident to the previous ones spanning back years. There’s barely been any change and change certainly won’t come now.

Unless management starts connecting with their playerbase more and actively putting them in a scenario where they can shape the server, then there will still be this exact same situation in probably a couple of months, where the community backlash will either be strong/weak and after a day then they get some token concessions from management and think that the community has “won” again.

While Management continue to be in their closed door conference and refusing to give up their positions to someone more connected and with a different us vs the rest mentality like some in management have, there will never be any meaningful change.


You are not wrong but what can I say, I am an optimist.

1 Like

to some extent I feel the players are part of the reason management can be seen as different, a lot of people who play ss13 can be extremely vitriolic and not open to a real conversation; at the other end in the management tower I am sure they had reasons for what they did and thought it would be for the betterment of the server

being called tyrants literally the worst 1984 etc is easily the way to make management stop actually talking to you the players, just treat them like human beings who may in fact not be omniscient and are as flawed as you are

this whole discourse has been so insanely stupid that i am left here like ‘jesus christ its like a briefing riot’. Some community members for sure had like actual constructive dialog but the vast majority were extremely angry and accusatory, and to an extent outrage does have a place but cm seems to overuse it. From the tiniest balance changes DEVS ARE BAD from the tiniest policy changes MANAGEMENT THE IVORY TOWER HELL BENT ON RUINING THE SERVER from mods enforcing the rules MODS ARE BAD to people like warfan who actually self removed themselves in community suicide and yet the community still twists that around to go for people’s throats

yall need to chill by like 80%


apparently now frozen is being doxxed not 10 minutes after my post

1 Like

It is kindof funny watching people who say “management has an Us Vs Them (players)” mentality show off their Us Vs Them (management) mentality


Every single community I’ve ever been involved with could have been described as “vitriolic” and “toxic” by someone. It’s like announcing that bad people exist. Yeah, no shit. As an admin in particular you get to deal with that all the time, that’s your job. That’s the responsibility you took on.

Look, it’s a simple fact that if you are in charge of a community, you have to be able to handle that. You have to be able to handle someone calling you the gamerword without losing your shit. You have to be able to handle someone talking back to you and disrespecting your “authority”. You need thick skin and a head on your shoulders, and you need to not give in to the cathartic feeling of just banning people who say things you don’t like hearing, or you get situations like this that spiral out of control.

A lot of this is a recent cultural trend where people want to be coddled in their positions of responsibility. Where they correlate things like a threat to their wellbeing by some anonymous troll, as the excuse they can act the way they do towards the community writ large.

It just strikes me as using toxicity as a shield.

That seems to work for awhile - but eventually… people are going to stop empathizing and caring.

I’ve already witnessed a lot of trolling/griefing in-game over the past few days that has seemingly exploded out of nowhere - but it didn’t really come out of nowhere, did it? This is a direct result of actions taken by CM’s leadership. Some people try to provide constructive discussion, others - the ‘bad eggs’ we could call them, lash out.

When I see someone point to the playerbase being ‘toxic’ and telling everyone to be nice to admins - look at what they have to deal with; what I see is someone taking examples of bad eggs, and using them both to excuse the poor behaviour of those with authority and responsibility, and to ignore genuinely constructive feedback from those who still try to give it.


slur was banned and hosts address was livestreamed on the cm voice chat you have no ground ot stand on the community is awful

1 Like

You cannot fix people being malicious to you by being malicious to the bystanders and uninvolved. Nor does someone being malicious towards you suddenly absolve past behaviour. When you start to push that, you begin to lose your legitimacy in the eyes of your community.

Your argument can practically be distilled down to, there are bad eggs in the community, so its okay for the leadership to be bad eggs, or: “Welp, looks like this other guy did something bad, so its ok I stomped my boot on your face actually.”

How about we instead accept that people in leadership positions need to be held to a higher standard, that they have to BE the ubermensch, not pretend to be.

Leaders shoulder burdens we wouldn’t typically ask of someone who isn’t. Accepting a leadership role comes with accepting these burdens; they always go hand in hand, and good leadership manages that, they do not use it as a shield nor cudgel to maintain authority and excuse their own bad behaviour.


I hope he’s hungry. Does anyone know his favorite pizza toppings? :blush:


Oh god, what are YOU doing here hahahahahaha

1 Like

I am going to make this very simple. I strongly disagree with frozen and his opinion of the community I love. However, that does not give any person the right to dox him. I will die on that hill. Doxing is evil.