AMR begone

General Discussion
21

Wrong, spotter is just free NVG, spotting is not that useful, you can abuse AMR without spotter.

Deranged statement. Regular sniper cannot deal 450 dmg to Queen, stun and slow her. The only thing comparable is flak because slow is that long, but it’s like simply just as problematic as AMR in this regard.

You do. You have enough ammo to spam shots until 1:30 from my experience. Then you just get ammo from req.

The most silly moment about AMR is that the regular sniper was balanced around two things: xenos could counter him with walls, and they could block shots with their bodies. And then Kaga introduced AMR, which has none of these drawbacks, nor any new ones. Like literally they made a version of a gun that simply circumvents the intended limitations. This is so silly and says a lot about our development. Just imagine making another SADAR spec type but the only significant difference is you don’t get huge wield delay so you can instantly blast xenos.

3 Likes
22

AMR is in a such weird spot for me personally. On one hand its extremely busted and OP in the hands of a good player who knows how to snipe, but on the other hand its so mind-numbingly boring to play as or against. Normal sniper has variance, it can either go backline hunting or frontline, and it has counterplays by xenos against it, like blocking a shot.
AMR needs something to make it fun. More ammo variation or something else? I dont really know myself. The gun is overpowered, but not the fun kind of overpowered.

2 Likes
23

Sniper has always been the most boring, but most consistent, easy to resupply and survivable, specialist. Both Snipers are fairly strong and are always a good pick for the Marines.

I’d argue AMR is better than stock Sniper, but they are both still highly ranked.

4 Likes
24

Once latespawned as a DMR, and both would just snipe the queen when she tried to screech. She never could since she would go below 50% health whenever she tried. It just seems way overturned with very bad stacking (the ability of more damage stacks if you have two as well, as it ramps off each other).

2 Likes
25

If two AMRs can stack off each other that’s disgusting.

1 Like
26

I noticed that after the third shot against the queen (me, him, me) went blue. It is legit disgusting stacking.

2 Likes
27

This is the issue more than raw kills, amr is just incredibly oppressive to the point that aiming at a t3 is enough to force it to retreat. Base sniper punishes xenos who overextend by slowing them with flak or putting them in danger of going crit from fire as they retreat but AMR just punishes xenos for existing near a frontline. You could say that being oppressive is the function of a sniper but this is to a ridiculous extent for an individual marine. WIth all the focus lately around instant FOB siege rounds why not retool AMR to aid pushes by clearing structures quickly or something rather than giving marines a tool which is great for cadehugging

3 Likes
28

I used to play a lot of regular sniper when i was not playing Sadar.
It was my second most played spec.

Regular sniper is not very strong, but has ammo variations and pros and cons with each ammo type.
Normal ammo for Damage.
Flak being the one that you use to punish and slow Xenos pushing for marines to chase and kill them.
Incendiary basically to be annoying, maybe prevent some Xenos from pushing or help finish a kill, since its not strong fire, its mostly just annoying.

Needing to swap ammo depending on wich caste you targetting.
All of this can be blocked by other Xenos. Someone ran in front of your target? Good job, you didn’t hit it. (Defenders actually bunkering down to protect their boilers or other castes from you)

Now AMR, while only having one ammo type.

Does Damage, Slows, Knocks you down (Makes you drop any cap you dragging, cancels any ability with windup, aka: boiler etc). All in a single ammo type.
With the added ability to pierce targets and shoot behind walls, with added penetration to break said walls or doors.

I will admit, for me, it’s fun to play (even tho it’s just point and click), but i also see how annoying it is. I also have played against it multiple times, it’s extremely annoying and punishing from screens away. I have held and turn around long rounds just because i have this gun on my hands.

Queen trying to push? Nope, There goes a big chunk of your health.
Boiler trying to shoot? Nope.
Dragging a Cap? Nope.
Xeno in crit? You tried, but you cant block the shot.
You put that crit Xeno behind the nearest defense you could find and drag him there? Sorry it’s dead.
Marines unable to push pylon? No worries, ill just shoot the walls down and the Pylon itself.

All this while safe behind marines or cades and partially invisible(prone armor ability).

Is there even a reason left to grab the normal sniper? When the single ammo type of AMR can do the same and more, of both Flak and Regular sniper ammo combined. You only loosing on fire, but do you really need regular incendiary ammo?

The only real counters to AMR is 2 tile walls (wich, if they are Xeno walls you can also destroy mind you) and boiler gas, wich, you also often can see from 3 screens away and just focus the boiler to make his life misserable.

7 Likes
29

it has a cool firing noise

5 Likes
30

one can only pray it gets unmerged as fast as it got speedmerged

2 Likes
31

Sadly it’s not how things work here.

6 Likes
32

Improve, not remove.

2 Likes
33

I’d rather deal with AMR than eat a sniper flak shot (no indication what ammo it is) and be slowed for the next 5(?) seconds. With AMR I at least know every bullet does the same thing and I can disengage, with flak I can not and will end up taking more damage than via AMR.

As for AMR itself, only experienced it once in-game and it wasn’t a big deal, seeing it on a test server now it seems like the only issue’s with stacking damage output on the same target by repeating aimed shots (and warrior lunge getting clowned).
Not really a fan of the wallpiercing mechanic but its w/e since it reduces bullet damage so it’s more useful to break a wall than to damage anything behind it.

I.e I dunno why you complain about AMR, I’d much rather use the regular sniper and abuse flak if playing spec.
Sniper in general has issues - spotters existing (multiple ghillies…) and being a buff is one of them (varied aiming shot times…) - I just ignore laser pointers now since I don’t know if it’s a spotter or the actual sniper.
I don’t think shotgunning while invisible with ghillie was ever fixed either tho maybe im wrong.

As for actual nerfs (besides removing spotters and adding weapon restrictions), revert Aimed Shot adjustment (!1413) · Merge requests · CM Devs / CM13 · GitLab
to Aimed Shot Nerf (!1307) · Merge requests · CM Devs / CM13 · GitLab and it’s all good again.

oh and remove sniper sentries, worse aids than amr

3 Likes
34

where was that logic with my beloved APC

Can we please remove it until it’s improved then? I don’t know what the process to rebalance it looks like, or how long it would take, or who makes those decisions in the end but is it something that could be done in the meantime?

You can’t say “improve not remove” to every single thing the second it’s prematurely added to the game even when it’s inherently bad and objectively unbalanced

1 Like
35

Flak is also broken, it doesn’t make AMR (which also slows you down if you didn’t notice) any better.

More like free NVG, although ghillies allowing people to insta use flamer/shotguns from invis are lame.

1 Like
36

Even if we take flak out of the comparison, I don’t think it’s particularly OP besides stacking and listed issues with sniper as a whole. As for the slow it’s short and so minor that it’s hard to care (unless the stacking effect happens which extends it).

1 Like
37

ah yes I would never take the 0 damage with a telegraphed slow attack, whats much better is the up to 450 damage, micro stun, slowing, no ammo economy, destroying walls and going through my teammates so when i go into crit they dont need to worry about how to kill me :smiley:

3 Likes
38

Yeah flak makes your slow and vulnerable to other marines, meanwhile AMR also makes you slow AND takes out a big chunk of your HP, so you are way likely to survive. Stun is also not to be underestimated, even if it’s half a second it may be enough for SADAR to land a perfect shot he otherwise wouldn’t. Wall/xeno piercing also ensures you have lower chances to escape/be saved, which is not as problematic with flak: you just need to get behind the closest wall.

I agree that flak is OP though which is evident by some sniper mains who buy nothing but flak. Because yeah surprise superslow you have no chance to anticipate (because the shooter is SCREENS away) is very stong. It being telegraphed doesn’t help at all because 2 seconds is not enough to get behind a cover for castes that don’t have dash. But it doesn’t justify AMR in the slightest. Flak and AMR are just two piles of crap, there is no need to argue which one is worse, both are.

2 Likes
39

Blatantly false as per code comments

// Most T3s have around 650 to 700 HP, meaning the health modifier grants a MAXIMUM of around 195-210 damage for a total max of 320-335. This is fully focused (3 shots) and at max HP.
// Queen takes around 275 at max health and unfocused, 425 fully focused.
// At low health, does little more than a normal shot. Does WORSE than a normal shot if unfocused and hitting through blockers, all of which stack to reduce it.

Normal sniper spawns with 90 bullets, AMR spawns with 40. Ammo cost also stacks faster because it’s a single ammo type, the box itself is also likely worth less because there is less ammo per magazine (though maybe im wrong and they have more mags to compensate).

This doesn’t work with aimed shot since it cancels the moment you step into cover, as for blindly shooting thru walls it’s both questionable and deals no damage as seen below.

It deals almost the exact same amount of damage as the normal rifle, in fact. And this is still with the stacking damage buffs. The microstun you mention is the same shit as if you’d be on the edge of a grenade explosion, its worthless.
Standard rifle

AMR

As for the slow it’s almost worthless

it deals no damage through walls

and only half of it through doors

Long story short it’s a shit gun and im pissed I even wasted my time testing this crap while I could have watched victory gundam instead. Noobtrap rifle.

2 Likes
40

Bro did half the tests without stacking aimed shots, states the gun deals the same amount of DMG as normal sniper :smiley:

It stuns queens crushers hedges so idk whats your point. It’s also harder to avoid than a nade unless OT.

I wouldn’t trust code comments, but 25 hp is not a significant difference to call something BLATANLY FALSE.

320 hp is half of base rav health pool bro. You literally can lose half of your HP with a single shot from offscreen.

Up to 3s with focus, idk how is it almost worthless.

Not always because of how FoV works. You can see a xeno you cannot hit, shot can happen the moment you enter the cover etc. And being behind a friendly xeno doesn’t cancel aimed shot, I like how you completely ignored this :smiley:

Weren’t you comparing AMR to flak? Normal ammo on sniper doesn’t have additional effects. And yeah, you are wrong anyway, because of the focus mechanic you can deal way more DMG than normal rifle.

5 Likes