At what point does accepted practice become LRP/ power gaming?

General Discussion
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Pretty much the title. I think we have all seen certain practices that we sort of just accept as “yeah, people do that” but are, in the context of the game, a tad LRP.

Im talking about shoving MREs and hand grenades into bibles, hacking vendors round start to get circuit boards as a SL for your toolbelt, taking down entire buildings with a breaching shotgun, and of course - Beloved UNGA.

Im sure there are many, many other examples that I simply do not know of. Alot of these are just accepted practice, but at what point, is it too far.

UNGA is beloved, but would a doctor, and a commissioned officer, really make a vat of controlled medications for marines to drink at their own leisure? Would marines, be willingly chugging a bottle of mixed chemicals?

Perhaps a particularly dedicated marine would keep a grenade in a bible incase of capture, but would it be part of their regular equipment “gun, amour, knife, nade bible?”

Squad leaders can vend a tool belt, and get an engineers kit, so must be intended to be engineers if they wish, but would they take the next step and go out of their way to get ahold of circuit boards, actively bypassing access restrictions in the process?

This was a question that came to mind when I, as a SL, who usually grabs welding goggles from the pilots area above the hangar so I do not blind myself with my toolbelt welder, and occasionally an APC board when we lack engineers, had when I thought “should I also take a detour to engineering to grab insulated gloves.” It is not targeting any one particular practice, and is not due to any staff actions or PRs. I have my own opinion, but I am curious enough to see what others think.

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This. But with people breaking into the engineering storage near alamo/nurse’s office. The absolute inability of CM13 marine players to simply ask on comms if someone can open the door for them please (8 out of 10 times it will be opened for them) and just shooting the window/pulling out tools without a second thought, then whining about getting brigged for it (they don’t know that MP’s forensic scanner can read hacked door and borken windows fingerprints).

It goes to the point of them breaking into/trespassing in front of a command officer, and verbally acknowledging that they expect the latter to let it slide (Looking at you Svato Plink). It probably happens because 70% of time they will not get punished for it, but the reactions I get from them when they do are priceless.

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I mean I whined about this more than enough but CM13 is pretty much operating on the standard of LRP, especially Xeno RP is basically a myth at this point.

It’s pretty much a given that it would turn into this due to the nature of a TDM server, not like that’s really an issue from my POV.

I’d say loosen up the RP rules a lot more to allow people to have more fun, rather than being really wonky with what gets you bwoinked for LRP and what not.

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I think it’s more due to the contrast there is between different parts of the game. On the one hand, we have the obove mentioned “Non-existand xeno RP” (which even I noticed from my limited time in ghosts) and ape-marines. On the other, the wonderful world of fax responders, predators, synthetics, COs, corporate, etc., which I wouldn’t trade it for anything. So many fun and engaging RP situations on my memory, as well as frequent events by the staff.

And also, Loosening the rules would seem dumb, because A: it’s impossible for a highly RP bound roles like synthetics/COs to exist in the same realm as the LRP crew, and B: There are already plenty of ways to have fun and goof around without the need to bend rules.

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“Powergaming” is not a thing here.

That aside, think along of the lines of

If I was my character in this situation, would I do this? Is it “realistic”?

If yes, then it is most likely NOT LRP, otherwise it is probably LRP.

Then again, we’re playing 2d spessman on an ancient engine held together by mysterious hieroglyphs pretending to be real marines fighting real xenos or vice versa!

Eitherway, never hurts to ask if you’re unsure and it’s better to get a ruling from a staff member (which gives you a safety net if another staff member disagrees). :melting_face:

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The Orbs speak to me like the Palantir.

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You can just go through maint and access it anyway. I think people take that vendor down planetside a lot anyway.

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It’s convenience intersecting with common sense and carelessness by basically everyone involved.

It is annoying and time consuming for both parties to constantly ask for, find, and give, the same equipment every single round (I need a circuit board, I need healing, I need a medvendor) Guess what sensible competent people do? They skip the babble and wasted time and either prepare things ahead, or break into inconsequentially locked areas to get the basic supplies they should have had available to begin with.

What’s LRP about it isn’t the player actions, it’s the way the map and resources are designed and placed, because nobody serious about making things efficient and purposefully easy and useful for their marines to win the fight would put roadblocks in front of them. Yet that is exactly what huge swathes of things on the almayer are like.

We should have public vendors for medicine, we should have public tool storage. I shouldn’t need to break into the surgery area to replenish my injectors nor ask a doctor and then wait around for 10 minutes for him to show up, or hand injectors to them one by one for them to refill. Like jesus christ who actually thinks people want to play this way?

These are concepts of playing the game dreamed up by deranged men who think in “shoulds” and “meants” and can’t adapt to or compromise for what’s actually fun and enjoyable for people.

Thankfully, nobody polices it, as there is an unstated agreement by just about everyone how dumb this is. What’s really lacking is getting any of the access problems resolved, because for some weird reason a few people actually do prefer to put stupid roadblocks in front of everyone for no more reason than the sake of inconveniencing hundreds of others.

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Lore-wise, the Almayer is basically alone on the outer edges of civilization, with half its armory blown up and its entire A-team 1st Platoon KIA in Operation Tychon Tackle. Scrounging for resources is kinda our shtick!

Unga Crafting

Oxy is I believe, the only restricted medication in Unga, as Mera/Derma are just non-standard chems, and Kelo/Bica are issued to every marine as pills and injectors. Unga itself is basically just a liquid emergency pen, which is much harder to OD on with the dilution.

Docs giving marines healing potions with the intent it just gets them upright to move to a real medic, and directions to swig like you would cough syrup isn’t that far fetched to me, especially when marines would bootleg it putting pills into canteens of water. The real issue is that magic healing chemicals exist at all.

I’ve not interacted with grenade bibles, but I assume they exist for extra storage? Which is dumb, after medkits were nerfed to not be open-able inside bags.

SL Stealing Circuits

As for preparation nonsense, I view a standard round as out of the ordinary for our marines. We’re woken out of cryo for an emergency distress beacon, and have 15 minutes to prep for drop. Less when you’re a SL who is required to attend briefing. Normally you would ask an MT for a circuit board, but that delays the entire operation over a equipment you could find in maintenance box! The MPs will get over it, or the XO will pardon you later, those survivors need you now!

Bonus tip: The engi storage in hanger has no access locks on its maintenance door, I often check it as PFC incase the vendors were hacked by a friendly CT.

My idea of low RP is injecting runner blood into yourself as a makeshift speed stim, or pre-medding Oxy pens since we have no addiction mechanics, but those aren’t too prevalent I don’t think.

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UNGA makes sense, very reasonable imo. Breaking and entering isn’t lrp imo, but expecting to not face consequences is. It’s totally rational for a concerned SL to try to grab extra supplies for his guys, but he’d obviously know that if caught he’d land in hot water.

And if you don’t want to take that risk, it’s not crazy to ask someone to grab a door for you. That’s common sense.

“Map should be open, everyone should have access to everything” is a silly take, obviously certain stuff is going to be restricted to certain people.

Edit: typo

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Good take.

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this is pretty much my take too- marines really ought to have certain accesses they do not.

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There is no such thing as powergaming on CM, and it should never be considered LRP and restricted by rules. You can argue it to be removed via a PR tho. Little things like bible as storage are bits of soul that bleed into tangible gameplay usage, and doesnt really take anyone out of immersion unless they pay really close attention to it. Honestly, incentive to carry a bible is probably overall good for rp all things considered

So yeah just a mechanical issue.

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You aren’t going to solve anything by making mundane, inconsequential QoL skips illegal or whatever. Forcing everyone to spend a significant amount of time asking adds tedium, and at that point you gotta ask yourself:

“Will forcing every player to double the time it takes to get a boring prep task done actually enhance RP in ANY significant way, or will it just make the game suck just a bit more?”

Generally, the answer is no.

Yes, you COULD ask people to vend stuff or open things for you. Will they do it? Half the time, you’re ignored, because again, this isn’t real life, this is a LRP-MRP game and most of the time people can’t be arsed to do minor things you can literally get yourself (via. accepted practice that almost never gets enforced).

It’s better to just change these things via. PRs, not making enforcement more strict.
Just nerf storagemaxxing via. bibles, or make some vendors more public, or whatever. It’s way less hassle than making staff members scratch their heads every time someone picks up the funny holy book. It’s a game, not a job. People do their jobs to be bored, people play games to be un-bored.

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Sometimes you just want to play the round, this doesn’t mean you wont roleplay- but there’s not always someone to speak to on comms to get you the equipment you need from those vendors. You can always check comms, but of course usually you wont get a response from engineering because someone isn’t there or isn’t checking.

Rounds need to flow, and with essential equipment like that I don’t think it’s a bad thing that most people remove the step of the middle man.

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Rant about (L)RP standards

On one hand, you can paint your hair lime and be a perfectly HRP senior USMC officer (looking at you, kinky SOs and doctors)

On the other hand we have preds, who explode people for LRP each time they open their mouths, because humans speaking English is textbook LRP

Roleplay standards are not clearly defined, all we have is “behave like a sane person would”. Will your average Joe mix a bunch of different meds into one unholy concoction? Depends on which admin you ask…

IMHO, IRL people tend to do dumb shit for zero reasons, it’s embedded in our monkey DNA. Breaking into the engie storage in front of an MP equals driving through the red light in front of a cop car. Is it dumb? Yes. Will you face consequences? Most likely. Will someone do that? Of course!

Yeah, and then endure 10 minutes of “what would you need that for?” Ultra HRP dialogue + miss the first (and even second) drop. Surely, not every doc/CT/MT is going to torture you like that, but after a couple such cases - you just get jaded and B line to grab whatever you want yourself

“Xeno RP” is being an extension of Queen’s will, and putting your hive’s needs above your own. As someone who’s been maining xenos for the past week or two - I’d say they accomplish that. I haven’t seen large scale disobedience or toxicity towards the queen and xisters

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The easiest example i can give you is from base ss13, on lrp server /tg, i used to play Head of Personnel a lot. People would come to me for access. Most of the time you would only ask them what do they need access for and give it to them, sometimes asking the Head of departament for their consent.
But if you made people fill in forms and get a stamp from the said head of departament, none would actually try to fill the form.
It just shows that people will rather just hack in and steal stuff instead of filling a form. Also, not giving access caused more chaos as people would rather break stuff, instead when they would get access, they wouldn’t break doors.

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I am aware its not a rules issue, I was talking in terms of sentiment.

Even if its not a rule issue, I think the people going around with bibles full of nades are perhaps power gaming in sentiment.

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Nothing I do is LRP, and as I no longer play the game you’re all LRPers. Deal with it and cry in a corner.

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The only thing I have seen marines actively restrict themselves is taking different hats for swag. TF2 was truly ahead of its time. Otherwise more often than not marines will approach exploit to get the most value. For instance, one scout used a coffin on normandy’s back door so when normandy launches, he can get out and immediately parachute to a random spot on the planet. Some are just not used because they dont know, like a scout (previously) not using burst fire. Some are not used due to how annoying the setup is, like filling protein bars with unga since they are 50U containers that are smaller than flasks, or filling cigarettes in a pack with blood or other chems to save on space. One surv was using cats on his head so when his bursted body dies, the cat comes out and tries to kill larva. Hell, marines at one point were using mortar shells as time delayed giant grenades.

Marines would attach custom c4 to themselves if they could.

I would argue the opposite, since marines more often than not game to their limits: what practice is considered too LRP/scummy to do?

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