For Despoiler it was genuinely just patience and constant communication on how the development is progressing. We did a fuck ton of bug fixing before the first Despoiler TM so it arrived in a relatively polished state.
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it isnt even worth the time nor effort to explain to cm players but i will try once again regardless
The reason a lot of balance or feature or whatever pr’s either get closed or die out isnt necessarily because we dont have as many maintainers or reviewers as tg.
Yes, a big part of it is the fact that we are a smaller community in the sense of our github as less people looking over things, and more people making another pr they think will help the game, which is fine, but its also where the problem starts
Everybody thinks they’re right, it doesnt matter if you have 10 hours on the game or 10 thousand, people always approach PR’s as if (for balance prs)
1.) it will %100 get in
2.) The player who made it is just making a pr from his own perspective, in most cases is fueled by his own experience (dying to it if its a balance pr) i have personally made a shit ton of prs for each side, and have more then 2 thousand hours on each, but people still call me a one sider on any pr that isnt their a “buff to their faction”
The biggest reason for features or other stuff to fail is that people do not understand why they’re adding half the stuff they are, the biggest recent example i can name is the SHARP, logically it doesnt make any sense for the weapon to be in the game.
Its not the first example of its kind, everybody is so focused on the addition nobody stops to ask why. its always “new feature good” or “new weapon good” or “new caste strong” Nobody stops to think about if the weapon is actually good enough to be used, strong enough to be viable or otherwise even worth picking (the sharp is not) i put this into words in the discord 5-6 times, specifically about the sharp because its a pretty common loop that repeats itself in our repo.
Some bullshit gets added, extremly overpowered (amr, sharp, impaler burrower) then people like it because its new, but people hate it because its overpowered. then its nerfed to oblivion
Back to sharp;
I specifically mentioned many times that if we are nerfing a weapon to the point of it being useless just to get it into the game, what is the point? People disagreed with me because of another issue i will get into.
Anyway, i said that the weapon is so useless now that functionally it would be better to just leave it out so it isnt pathetic and left to rot untill somebody makes another PR that would buff it into oblivion. (previous examples are M4RA scout rifle, HPR, Spitter for the slight amount of time it was reworked) where shit goes from “useless so atleast it gets in," to “overpowered as fuck we need to nerf it” its a tiring loop, because the balance of the game isnt managed by anyone, and im not jabbing at anyone because i know specifically Drathek is a very busy person, hes reasonable and thats more then anyone can ask for knowing our older heads.
But a lot of us being unable to move forward stems from the same issue that, something is nerfed or removed years or weeks ago, then people who have not played nor experienced it come back trying to readd it because it sounds cool, which essentially turns the github into a tug of war, where we progress 2 weeks, then everything is undone in the next week. the cycle will unfortunately continue untill maintainers are a bit more strict with how they want the game to go. Which is not fair on a lot of them because most of them are here to help instead of direct.
(apc, boxer, sharp, impaler, )
Essentialy what happens is weapon pr is made → its test merged → its op as fuck → nerfed to oblivion so it gets in → it gets in → its abandoned untill a PR is made a few months later to buff it into oblivion (i can name like 3 prs that are off the top of my head) I think overall our why is it good for the games section should have atleast a character limit for features or balance PRS.
There are times when no matter what you bend something into or twist it, it doesnt make sense so there should be more prs that go with “well we tried to fit it in, but it doesnt work” and get closed instead of bending and twisting it another 350 times and adding it into the game in one of the many states i mentioned.
Another issue we have with feature PR’s is that a lot of the time shit just gets in because “they spent time on it” i understand that taking the time out of your day to work on a 25 year old game and it getting denied isnt fun, but a lot of things that get in are just not required, yes new content is always fine but if the /ONLY REASON THAT A PR IS GETTING IN BECAUSE THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON IT/ then thats not a pr worth considering unless they tweak it untill it has other meaningful impact then just the fact that somebody spent time on it.
There seems to be some sort of false perspective that makes people pretend like we shouldnt just close PR’s. ive seen it across maintainers and people who cant seem to grasp they cant just close a pr (mostly because our maintainers dont want to be rude, so they either let it stall out on purpose or dont say anything.) But i cant blame them for that, most of them are there to help and if they dont want to take the responsibility of closing a pr thats fine, but it is something that does affect peoples perspective on how prs work.
Theres also a case of PR’s that are just infact bad for the game. Im not going to name any because for me those are just my opinions, but i personally do not think the game needs to be harder to enjoy, it just needs to be fun, a marine shouldnt have to do 5 quick time events and make sure the injector hasnt been overheated by the grip of his ascheeks so the contents of the injection arent “less” nor should the xeno have dodge cyan flames that take their half his health at 0.23 minutes into the round.
Theres a big faction of people who take criticism of their pr as an insult to them personally for some reason, and disregard everything by calling people “not wanting the game to change” or “burnt out players” or “new thing bad” a lot of this (in most cases) is true yes, we do have a big playerbase who hates any change, but it being used as a shield to add any shitty change to the game is NOT a good thing.
Going back to balance because i love balance discussions and theyre the reason my resting heart rate is at 180bpm
We as a community unfortunately suffer from a big part of one siders, its just how the game is, its a team game and people play what suits them, thats natural, that happens in any team game where the characters arent a carbon copy of eachother, nobody would ever say “blue soldier needs to do 10 damage more then red soldier because hes wearing a darker shade of color which means the suns rays are hitting him more which means hes absorbing more vitamins!”
But our game isnt symetrical, its asymetrical and a lot of people havent grasped the fact that just because you are buffing you own faction, you aren’t inherently making the game better for yourself.
A lot of people have not realised that most of the fun (gameplay wise) from the game comes from, if you’re the marine, stopping a horde of xenomorphs that are hard to beat, people dont want to improve, people dont want to spend a few extra minutes to understand how to counter things (goes for both sides) the satisfaction from being able to kill a warrior or a lurker in a 1v1 is a dopamine hit most people dont want to experience because “well erm….the lurkers supposed to be swtronger in a 1v1…sooooo i dont think i will even try” we subjugate our newer players to basically unconsented lobotomies where they will become m4ra scope wielding XCOM bots, and people think “well theyre not shooting anyone so its good!” no its not. we are making newer people not only 1.) get bored out of their mind 2.) safeguarding so much they have no room to learn.
I’d rather get shot by a pvt thats learning and get angry then have another m4ra scope bot thats just watching me get killed because he doesnt know what to do in the situation.
The issue isnt people liking their own team, its that their vision of what should be gets blurred by what they enjoy playing, People dont think about the other side of the game, and this is very critical (and very shocking) if the weapon named xeno killer 5000 is one shotting xenos, thats going to get old for you pretty fast, and make the last 25 xeno players we have quit even faster. Now thats just an example before anybody replies to this thread say ing “UMM YOU SAID XENO KILLER 5000 BUT WHAT ABOUT MARINE MURDERER 30000 CASTE” (yes theres people who say this shit exist, can you believe it?)
Which is one of the bigger problems come into play, just because the marine side has poop doesnt mean the xeno side shit is excusable. “Xenos have king so every marine should be able to karate chop a xeno to death” is not a intelligent argument, comparing bad mechanics from the other side to justify your sides isnt either. People need to look at this game from a middle ground, or we get weapons like AMR on release which basically made it so oppresssive that xenos basically could not leave caves.
Which is a big part of the following;
every thing in this game has a role.
Xenomorphs are by base stronger then marines (or allegedly should be) because theres at most 30 xenos and about 120 marines roundstart at a good pop. This basically means that xenos are yes, by default, supposed to be more handheld. What this means is basically if you put two people (one marine one xeno) next to eachoter in a fight of equal skill level, the xenomorph should be winning unless the marine pulls out some skilled shit.
Marines are a horde that are supposed to be pushing the hive, not afking in fob untill research makes stims from the botanical plant that blooms once per year, nor cade every cave entrance and afk untill the IO’s get intel for nuke.
Yes i understand that these concepts are forgein to some people because their asscheeks have basically calcified into their razer gaming seat, but fun is more important then the hollow victory you achieve by afking for 3 hours, just like how shooting into the dark cave isnt fun, being shot at by the 30 billionth cade hpr isnt fun either.
Survivors are not a role thats meant to survive, a lot of people cannot accept this because i guess it hurts their ego or something, but when you willing (yes willingly, nobody has a gun to your head if you want to just roll marine and frag) you are basically joining as a role thats supposed to be, crippled, the underdog, and very slim chances of living. Yes im sure when you kill 5 young drones as a survivor and marines give you that sweet “oh my god hes such a le fragger chungus” attention and when you post a video fo you killing the 5 hour drone player im sure the dopamine hit you get is unmatchable.
I wouldnt be wrong to say %90 of the survivor player base are just attention hungry people who just want to get told “wow dude, you killed a xeno as a survivor youre soo coool” because i sure as shit know these people who claim to play it as a “roleplay” role do not wait more then a second to go shipside arm up and immidietly come down with full marine gear, rushing east caves all alone (before you reply to me, remember i said %90) Obviously this doesnt apply all the time because sometimes there’s just simply nobody to roleplay with shipside.
But people just need to accept that survivors are not frag machines, you are playing a role that is a harder role by default, so when you make 30 prs trying to add deathsquad armor to it and then complain that people hate you just because “xeno cope” then have a little chud out, just remember that you are fighting your own demons.
People want to swing their own skill around for (balance) PR’s untill somebody with more hours come in and then suddenly they’re just a no lifer, people dont want to listen to eachother at all, not just “disregard feedback” its a circle that wont break unless people just arent allowed to be as rude and annoying they are (yes pot calling the kettle black)
Toxicity to better players just exists in general, people have literally treated me worse when im playing xeno just because i have a name and a silly tag, but apperantly when i make a statement “hours dont matter” unless its to put you down lol. People dont want to listen to whom they claim are better players, but also insult when they try to give a modicum of feedback. This isnt to say unless you have 6000 hours on the game you cant make a pr, but being able to just disregard every feedback because “you’re just a guy with 6000 hours whos burnt out” is stupid, its not a valid discredition of the criticism.
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I agree with a lot of your points.
This made me chuckle 
.
I mean you’re not wrong in a way, but they don’t really “survive” the majority of the time. They don’t do it for attention though - 75% of the time even if they’re fragging multiple Xenos, survivors die before the marines come, or are perma’d off somewhere and never found. What “attention” do you really think people even get? The only other people who even know what you’ve done are the other survivors. There’s been many a round where the survivors manage to get multiple Xeno kills, but still either die or get captured, or have half the survivors die and the other get captured, making all those kills pointless to the overall game.
I’ll give you a good example of something that happened in the past. One Trijent round, as regular joe survivors, we held up at the Bar checkpoint, we somehow managed to kill around 14 Xenos including the Queen Chi. yet “somehow” the marines never managed to get anywhere near our hold to save us, and the Xenos STILL won the round in the end lol. Crazy stuff, crazy high-pop rounds though, it was in the past when the pop was more around 180 on high pop times though or so.
It’s really baffling people don’t actually see them as this, they literally have all the odds stacked against them the majority of the time, and have so much hate from Xeno players mostly, and some of the head honchos as well - which further adds to their “underdog” status. Which is one of the reasons I defend the role so much, one of the reasons I like to prove people wrong when they say “survivors shouldn’t survive” or some other such nonsensical statement.
Where are these mysterious PR’s you speak of? I’d like to see an example lol.
I’d like to see these so-called fragger comp videos you’re talking about too, because all I ever see is Marine fragger videos or clips. All I’ve seen are from literal years ago where the balance was completely different, making them pretty much irrelevant to modern CM.
Surviving and actually getting kills these days is actually pretty damn difficult, unless it’s an over zealous baldo Drone or something.
I think Survivor players mostly just play it for the challenge, the thrill of the odds being stacked against you. To get into the action straight away and not have to wait 20 mins, which when you’ve played hundreds of Marine hours, it becomes a bit tiring.
It’s funny how you say “I want the game to be harder”, but the literal hardest role you’re mocking and saying they’re losers pretty much. I don’t think you actually realize how difficult playing survivor is most of the time, I’m not counting the low-pop rounds with 5 Xeno players playing or such. I think the actual survival statistics are like 25% of the time, 75% of the time all the survivors save maybe one locker hider are dead. Last time I checked the actual statistics it was something like that.
Honestly it just sounds like you’ve been killed as an over zealous Drone too many times and are bitter, considering how much unnecessary hate you have towards them seemingly, unless you’re trolling of course. There’s really no other reason, nobody really has any reason to care about Survivors other then Xeno players who have died to them, they can safely be ignored by both the Marines and Xenos and nothing will change round-wise. (Unless CLF of course, but then it becomes in the Xenos favor to actually just ignore them, which stupidly enough the Xenos still can’t fight the urge to kill them, and manage to die to them, when just leaving the CLF alone would benefit them more-so).
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I do like how redbyte talked about balance and devving, prs and whatnot. But survivor defenders come out of the woodwork criticizing him for saying what he did about survivors.
This is not a thread about survivor balance, as it seems to just be an example of balance changes and prea to it. If you wanna talk about survivor balance go make a thread about it instead of trying to hijack this one.
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lol
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