You understand MTs. Well done sir. Removing Decon is a bad idea.
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- Mortar. Inc is too good for area denial. It lasts for too long, takes too much pats and can be spammed over and over.
- Metal I agree to a degree.
- Bad mapping. Hellsieges usually happen on the same maps, on the same LZs. Examples are: LZ2 on LV, LZ1 on NV, LZ1 on CC, LZ1 on SS, etc. Unbreakable shutters, unweedable areas, just bad angles, tight spaces (easily mortarable, see 1), ledges and such make FOB sieges unbearable.
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Mo-fos out here talking about weakening FOB holds when they will cry the minute after something like that happens: âMARINES METAEVAC REEEEEEE!â.
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Too much objectives will ruin the unique sandbox feel of this game, where player choice is very variable, random, and productive of new and good gameplay. If objectives are added, they should be open and always keep this in mind - ideally by being non-negatively impactful to direct player-vs-player gameplay. So avoid things like stims⌠marsoc⌠etc.
Iâd even argue nuke and king are pushing it in terms of negative gameplay impact because of how much of an easy victory they will feel like - but at least king is fightable, and serves a purpose to destroy cades and break siege. Nuke at least encourages xeno aggressiveness - although honestly there should be a xeno alternative that forces marine aggressiveness instead.
Marines aggress and xenos defend, that is the ideal vision of the game imo.
(as for marine defense objectivesâŚ) Railroading player choice to necessary objectives solves nothing⌠will make it less fun⌠and more based around âsiegeâ or âarea holdingâ to protect objectives.
Alongside this, forcing rounds to go in a certain way every time may make it less fun. I donât want âgoodâ or âconsistentâ pacing every round⌠I want variation, player randomness. Enjoyable gameplay that occurs at random moments - you may be able to predict it, encourage it, or play for it, but it is inherently gonna be different every game because of player randomness. And with player randomness, the only way up is either up (players get more skilled), down (new players join), or context-dependent (meta shifts, mentality shifts, general perception shifts, game changes, and the results of these things (such as making certain playstyles/castes harder/easier))
Survivability is viable. Just play better.
Imo permadeath is a necessary and core part of the game. It sucks to permadie early in a 3 hr round, but it works in encouraging better gameplay (and more thought into gameplay) and is very satisfying to overcome.
It is quite annoying though when you get hard countered - like say by a HEDP vs a t2. But thatâs part of the game too, and if you play marine you can enjoy the power of HEDP just like the one killing you did. And with greater thought into your actions, you can avoid HEDP through prediction, reason, and awareness, and learn to fight HEDP better. Although it does suck to be stuck on weeds because of a good GL - but with teamwork all things are solveable.
Unnecessary. Attacking xeno structures is ez and a major part of the game, its just marine fob siege that is cancerous imo.
I believe fob siege is unfun because itâs uninteractive, doesnât require a lot of thought or skill, and is just generally boring + time-wasting. But it does have advantages too, in letting marines reset their injuries, resupply, and prepare for another assault⌠the problem occurs when marines excessively abuse cades - and make it so that combat does not occur.
I believe abusing cades to the point where they just âwait for xenos to die, so we have an easy victoryâ is also the worst possible gameplay imagineable, since the only methods to do that are very inconsistent and time-consuming. In reality too, gameplay halts for everyone because of the choices of these players who donât want to interact and want to gamble on the most boring killing method in the videogame because it just so happens to be the easiest and most obvious. (all as designed, for some reason)
It is devoid of teamwork. Just individuals existing in a fob, without any real reason or purpose. Which often leads to a scenario where noone can go out - because the people without knowledge on how to win are sitting in fob and effectively griefing the team by never carrying necessary weight, or letting the game carry them, by letting mortar or CAS do all the killing / new xenos run into cades.
But it DOES have the capability to turn the tide of battle, which can be fun. And a mandatory pause in gameplay can give people a break, to collect their thoughts and get angry at the enemy side - more determined of victory, or make the game have an emotional impact on the player. It is interesting positionally, where a cade can act as a unique barrier to face (although iâm not a fan of inset cade walls).
Marine defenses shouldnât last longer or protect more then is necessary imo, and that may be a way to improve the game. It depends on how people respond and if they truly want to become more aggressive marines though.
In reality though, the solution to all of this is just something to âshift the cultureâ to be more aggressive again. So drastic changes to gameplay are not necessary - even if this theoretical gameplay cancer loop still has potential to exist. Something that shifts the game state more in line with the âvanguard guideâ from years ago, where new players were taught to charge instead of to fallback when faced with fear. As annoying as âfearrp marines!â dchat salt spam can get, it is also a good way to encourage new players to push more often if they believe that marines win if they just push (which is not always true, but makes the game more fun if they think it is true).
Imo marines should hold their weight in at minimum, being aggressive and going for kills when possible - new players should aim to be a cog in the machine and care little for their own benefit without their team, while they learn the game.
That way, gameplay becomes more fluid and less bricky. Always encourage a PVT. charge, even if you think itâs stupid. Maybe try to follow your SL into hell, even if theres 4 warriors - it makes it feel like they did something.
Instead of holding cades - stand infront of the pvts who will yell at you, until they come out too and commit glorious suicide with you as the HPR pvt full autos you all in the back. If they complain, be a hypocrite and call them noobs so that salt turns into anger (and aggression against the xeno morp menace).
Encouraging marines to better utilize cades is good too - teaching new players to push out of cades instead of hold them. It may hurt short-term, but will help the game long-term as players become more accustomed to how they should play.
And ofcourse. Bring back murderball meta!!! !!! !!! !!! !!!
itâs so much better then fob fallback meta!!! !!! !!! !!! !!!
idk why it changed. Maybe itâs just because of players going for easy âfull-round-life,-but-no-killsâŚâ victories instead of the more fun and âdifficultâ/skill-building ârun-it-down-and-die-earlyâ victories, because full round life entails both living to shoot longer and ez victory.
Ofc pure aggression isnât âgood playâ, since âgood playâ entails both knowing when (and how) to defend/aggress - and i think in general, âall-defendâ meta is long-term more close to good play then âall-aggressiveâ. But itâs better (and more fun) to be all aggressive then to be all defensive. A general sentiment that cares too much about death and defense is a problem that makes the game less fun to play - even if itâs inherently true that marines dying individually loses games over time.
A sort of reach-around example change that might work for this, is nerfing xeno numbers to encourage marines to push more. (although i donât think itâll be a great change - it also makes it easier to defend against xenos, can be upsetting to play, and may impact gameplay negatively overall)
Also the other 2 suggested changes are interesting too, but I donât have time to write more rn
Thatâs untrue. Riflemen are more then strong enough, especially if you work together or learn the game. I do think though that a lot of riflemen use crutches, or have bad perceptions of when to be defensive or aggressive and play one that they find easier to make up for it.
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Back during the Cold War, the USN was usually described as strategically offensive, but tactically defensive. While the Soviet Navy in contrast was described as strategically defensive, but tactically offensive. Thatâs basically how it should be with marines and xenos. Marines are a strategically offensive faction, but a tactically defensive one. And itâs the opposite with xenos.
The problems all began when careless changes started turning marines into a strategically defensive faction.
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im sure the problem will fix itself if you nerf xeno again
bro just one more xeno nerf just one nerf bro please more xeno nerfs this time it will fix everything bro just more nerfs please
Current late game loop relies on marines getting god tier stims to mop up the xenos. Especially if they do not have both comms for nuke. Pylon changes also made it so that xenos do not get infinite larva scaled on marine population, making it challenging for xenos to close out a fob siege. Allowing marines to simply hold the fob and farm xenos who have ADHD.
Depending on the map, getting KING just may not be viable if marine coms is right next to their LZ and incorporated into the fob. Thats when xenos truly get cucked as they have no other means of pressuring marines to move out of fob.
Ever since the research nerf (more are coming/rework), stims cannot make up for the earlier marine robusto losses. Instead, it gives just enough strength for marines to stall out the match. I am hearing they are working on further nerfing research. Which will make the late game all the more painful for BOTH marines and xenos.
In my opinion they should just get rid of research and OT altogether (OT is also being nerfed). In return, marines should get some broad buffs. It would certainly provide more consistent matches rather than having to pray you have a competent research or OT and the constant curse of having to rework research. I do not think itâs a fun experience for xenos to fight marines who have either speed/antistun who heal up all damage/fracs.
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Hmmm⌠Got an interesting idea.
What if every map had special xeno-only objective that requires Queen to ovi and wait a bit there to claim? It has to be situated in a smart place, fairly close to FoB, but not too close, just to give marines a chance to rush out of FOB, but not so that they can cover it from FoB (unlike some comms).
What it would do is to give xenos a âlesserâ surge, but instead of pathetic weak lesser drones it gives lesser defenders, lesser ravs, lesser chargers and lesser acid runners.
Entire dchat gets that Whiskey Outpost TM experience and their only purpose is to kill themself on FoB defences repeatedly.
If finetunned I think it would be a great tool to break those hellsieges that both sides hates.
Xeno players get something to break them, marine players get something exciting to shoot and a reason to rush out, dchat gets to play again.
It achieves a way to force marines out of FoB that isnât King.
If for example Queen was completly unable to deovi when lesser surge starts, then that would be a golden opportunity for marines to seize victory. Xenos can decide to do it, if they feel powerfull enough to hold a spot, but weak enough to not break a FoB.
Honestly, any type of reward for having map control should be given. Marines already have intel, which can be equalized to MOBA farming. Meanwhile xenoes only have coms and their shitty buffs.
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Didnât we already learn that lesson from the previous iteration of xeno endgame? Xenos gonna trap marines in the FOB siege and this just gonna feed that. Also, stop trying to turn CM into the PVE horde thing, thereâs already the PVE server for that.
But youâre not completely wrong - the correct solution is actually just giving the xenos some small free larva drop after like an hour in. That drop should require the queen to be on ovi and shouldnât be enough to feed the permanent FOB siege. Instead the xenos should retreat to the caves and it should be enough of an incentive for marines to push in, instead of waiting another hour for the nuke - by that time xenos sitting in the caves may just passively gain enough to stop that play.
I think these are necessary things. As much as folks like to tout dying within the first 15 minutes of an op a learning experience its not very fun.
Both sides need some things to increase variety of the experience.
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Bring back 2 larva per cap, itâll solve everything 
It is a perfect solution. Find better one.
Giving xenos few larvaes wonât do shit really to the FoB siege experience for both sides, it will be just more xeno slot for those who missplay and die on cades. So more xeno slots = longer FoB siege.
What you proposed would literally prolong rounds. Xenos need something they can throw at FoB without having to risk their lives.
The key question here is WHEN the FOB siege is appropriate and when itâs not. Right after the deployment itâs not appropriate, so we donât want the xenos to attack the FOB. The obvious way is nerfing the xeno numbers, so that they simply wonât realistically be able to take the FOB and also nerfing the marine stalling crutches(nuke, stims), so that the xenos wonât feel like they have to speedrun the round.
After an hour in, the FOB siege is now appropriate, but because weâve nerfed the xenos already, theyâre unlikely to have the numbers now, because itâs gonna be a megafob by then and marines keep being fed by the latejoins. Thatâs why and when xenos need more sustain.
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We will come full circle with that. Just like when xenos had maturity, marines will metarush hive before larvae boom.
New forum thread in few months:
How to end/prevent +/- 30 minutes marine metarush major?
With tight enough balancing. We donât want either side winning too quickly.
Completely out of left field thought.
Marine Maturity âCryo Sicknessâ
A slow and damage resistance that fades away as game goes on. Cryo gives marines more resistance to damage at first but makes them slower, then as game develops it wears off and marines get more agile but easier to kill.
Pushing the enemies main base where they manufacture more units => metarush
Can you stop metaposting metagarbage on the metaforums where every metaword gets meta added to it like how some xenos in-game xalk xike xhis.
Also maturity era was perfect other than the part where marines could escape (though that was fun when you were playing marine).
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What made it a metarush was marines relying on the information that xenos wonât have T3s until 12:26 and wonât have mature T3s until 12:33. There was no way to get that information IC. Without that marines have no reason to hurry, because xenos donât reproduce out of nowhere.