Loosen deuptizing requirements, standardize ML changes, and clarify MP field arrest procedures

Hi guys, the name’s Steve, and I’d like to give my thoughts on some points of ML that I feel could do with improvement, without this post becoming an essay.

Screenshot 2024-08-29 164543

As the greatest legal mind CM has ever known, I am going to separate this post into three distinct sections, for ease of reading, and ease of writing. Each of these topics are aspects of ML that, while good in theory, often find themselves the becoming devils in the details during a Provost appeal.

Loosen Requirements for Deputizing

While this is a side of CM that almost nobody gives a shit about, enforcing ML can get seriously difficult on the twice nightly occurrence when pop dips below 80, and we have no CO, and not a single MP for an hour and a half.

Are you the XO? Did someone M2C the req line? Would you like to arrest them?

Well that sucks, doesnt it??

According to this section of ML, there is quite literally nothing anyone besides staff can do to enforce the law until/if a CO wakes up.

On top of that, OOC situations can quickly develop in such an unnecessarily lawless environment, where street rules are often used to deal with troublemakers, exposing well meaning players to a possible player report for acting on behalf of an absent MP department, and illegally arresting obvious violent criminals.

This is an unbelievably pointless restriction on lowpop CM, that serves only to make everyones round a whole lot worse on the extremely common occasion where MPs cant be bothered to wake.

I am fully convinced that lowering the requirements of deputizing to a Commanders provision, with the Duty Officer being EXCLUDED from this ability, will just serve to avoid several million headaches for staff and players combined

Standardizing Announced Changes to ML

As a WL’d Commander, and the highest legal authority onboard the Almayer at any given time, it is of the upmost importance that I am able to excercise and understand Marine Law in its entirety, with even the smallest legal mistake often resulting in a player report for an unlucky CO.

That being said, Im sure I am not the only one to hold the opinion that, for a document as important as Marine Law, updates to its contents should be treated a lot more seriously than they are currently.

To draw a parallel between updates to server rules, and ML rules, I think it is pretty clear which sets the gold standard in terms of ease of access to people whose job it is to understand both.


How ML updates should look

Screenshot 2024-08-29 164033
How ML updates actually look…

I dont think I need to spell out how stressful it can be to play as CO and be expected to manually compare changes over multiple iterations of the ML wiki (because ML changes are not applied all at once, instead being over 2-3 versions), and how much room there is for error in such an environment.

To draw an example to the most recent ML changes, regarding the addition of Duty Officers, which is arguably the most significant ship side legal change in recent memory. We received this notification in a channel that a significant majority of the server likely has unlisted.

Screenshot 2024-08-29 170044

One to two lines about an almost complete restructuring of how the upper chain of command works, is quite simply not acceptable, especially compared to how thoroughly LTNTS documents changes to server rules on the forums.

We MUST start changing our approaches to ML updates, opening a thread similar to the rule changelog in Announcements, and putting in more effort to keep everyone on the same page when moving forward with ML changes.

Clarify MP Field Arrest Procedure

This example stems specifically from a ridiculous field arrest I witnessed two weeks ago, where a squad of MPs ran across Hybrisa, into the caves, and arrested Delta SL for DTGP during first drop.

They then carried the immobilized body of Delta SL across the AO, all the way back to FOB, claiming that their arrest was valid because it was performed in a forward base, classified as a “secure area”.

Marine Law specifically states the following

Arrests are restricted to the FOB, dropships, and secure areas unless in “hot pursuit”

  • I ask for clarification on what precisely classifies as a secure area during a field deployment, since this is not defined anywhere I have found within ML, SOP, or the rules.

MP’s may travel between secure areas, but may not make arrests during these travels and must make sure the transport back with the arrested person happens safely.

This line directly implies that MPs are only allowed to move between secure areas when NOT conducting an arrest, since transporting a prisoner that has not yet been incarcerated still classifies as an ongoing arrest.

  • Also, how exactly is an MP meant to ensure an arrest is conducted safely, and what is the punishment if they fail to do so? Does taking someone from a secure area, through an unsafe area, then back to the FOB count as safe?

Should there be hostiles in the vicinity, the MP is required to abort the arrest and move to a secure area.

Since it can be assumed that hostiles will likely be present across the AO when moving between secure areas, this line appears to directly contradict the first, and implies that a arrested Marine cannot be moved in between secure areas while in custody.

So I ask, which is it?

  • Are MPs allowed to conduct arrests if they must transport a prisoner through unsafe areas to get back to the FOB?

  • If not? Why allow the secure area arrest at all? Since any secure area that is NOT the FOB must, by nature, have an unsafe area at some point in between it and the LZ.

  • If an MP transports a prisoner through an unsafe area at any point, is this a violation of their right to protection?

Feel free to point out any areas in which you feel I have possibly misinterpreted ML in any sections.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

11 Likes

I agree with the fact that Marine law is very obscure, but I am pretty sure it is done so that admins/moderators have some leninacy to if they consider that a rulebreak or not (depending on how malicius they feel).

Also as a sidenote, if all the marine laws (and rules) get proper wordings like legislations do; we may have to have lawyers and defendants that can dipspute any reports (WL and ban).

2 Likes

Some bits are vague because it isn’t always clear cut in this game what to expect, but yeah i guess it makes sense to give examples

Also i thought XOs could deputize? at least in 2020… the new ML is way too wordy for my taste, I know some guys like it to be as crystal clear as possible but GOD there’s so much shit, for example the NJP section of the ML covers my whole screen when you just take from it: “If minor crime, you can make the marine do some random non-disruptive BS instead”

Like you just KNOW that there’s going to be someone pulling up the ML on another tab and making sure to see if you slip up in the tiniest to have an excuse to fax the provost its annoying but it is what it is

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Can we please stop trying to take away every unique privilege awarded to CO?

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we dont have cos on many rounds

there are many mp-less rounds, I suggest deputizing being extended to aCO.

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Hi there, just clarifying based on your third point. Before then however let’s paint a picture on the most played map in the game LV-624.

First Scenario, standard LZ1 FOB linking towards the Nexus, as well as to LZ1 comms through cargo, fully fortified. A smaller mini FOB in hydroponics, and a third in Tfort.

Secure areas: LZ1, Nexus, Cargo, Comms, Hydro, TFORT.

Second Scenario, LZ2 Robotics FOB with defences stretched out all the way to the medical dome + Engineering Dome fully fortified. As well as LZ2 comms

Secure areas: LZ2, LZ2 Comms, road to engineering, engineering, road/jungle to medical, medical.

—————————————————————————————

In Scenario 1, a Marine that is wanted for whatever crime in LZ1, Nexus, Cargo, LZ1 comms is a free target for arrest without any risk of penalty for breaking SOP. Should they leave these areas whilst being chased by MPs, whilst its advised the MP ends the pursuit, they are well in their rights to continue the arrest as per the ‘Hot Pursuit’ side of the SOP.

If a marine is in Hydroponics before MPs attempt to arrest, they cannot legally perform the arrest. Whilst MPs can travel between secure areas, if they are not in hot pursuit, they cannot legally transport a prisoner from 1 secure area to another unless the route itself is secure by defences. They risk backliners assaulting them at anytime and will be an SOP break.

Similarly if they were to go to TFORT to get an arrest, the entire route to the FOB is not secure therefore its an illegal arrest.

If a marine thats wanted is found initially on the route to a secure area, MPs cannot initiate an arrest.

I love how I gave a whole ass Scenario 2 but I explained what I believe the interpretation of the SOP better with Scenario 1. Ultimately however with Scenario 2, MPs have a bigger playground to make secure arrests unless they are travelling outside of the main defences. Such as going to LZ2 comms.

In your description of what happened 2 weeks ago, going into the caves to find the Delta SL to perform an arrest sounds incredibly ill planned.

2 Likes

Just for context in this round. An Admin did MOOC that the MPs were allowed by ML to do this arrest.

Anyway. Forest has already said they haven’t properly defined what a secure area is, so I expect that to be rectified in the future for not just MPs, but any shipside deploying.

Deputizing should definitely not be a CO only thing. Being Command staff whilst you have no MPs and major/capital crimes going on isn’t a CO only occurrence. And I doubt there’s many rounds where there happens to be a CO but no MPs. Comparatively to where we have plenty of low pop rounds with no CO and no MPs. I think I’ve seen a CO deputize someone like once.

Of course you can just solve the problem via shooting in self defence or the defence of others and getting on with whatever. If it’s that big of an issue.

And though I personally feel like going to the front lines of an ongoing conflict is in fact not a secure area just because some engi put some cades in one or two directions, but my opinion doesn’t matter.

Spirit of the Law and not wording of the Law will be commonly sited, specifically because ML doesn’t cover everything even in the sections it does cover well.

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These are just my interpretations and what I would order as CMP to avoid any potential grey area interventions from Provost or staff OOC. ML leaves a lot of ambiguity in these situations and I would love more concrete solutions to this.

2 Likes