Can we just agree that instead of performing demonic dances around the server population we can just make the tank something command can buy for intel points?
Seriously, since the Ddos the pop dropped drastically, and it doesn’t seem to be a viable option anymore. From a balance point of view as well. Why do we need to simply gift marines an uber weapon roundstart by achieving an arbitrary threshold of server player count (which is totally and without any doubt acccurate to the actual proportional strenght of marines and xenos) when just putting it the tech tree would be so much better. It doesn’t simply fall on marines from the gods of the vehicle bay. They need to work for it!
Most importanly, it’s much easier to balance in the framework of the tech tree itself. For example, I want it to put it in the same technology tier as foxtrot squad and the specialist, but I do feel like it’s a little strong. Well, just slap something like a 10 or 15 point cost on it! Now CiC need to actually think whether they need a tank/APC instead of a marine squad, specialist, OB, etc. And it always could be tweaked futher to suit the Holy Grail of balance.
I also propose to make the tank and the APC seperate things (of which you can only buy one, excluding the other). Maybe some day V-tol will make an appearance in a same way as well.
I hate the thought of rolling VC through ghosting, but I am also a firm believer that Nuking as a Marine endgame is stale and needs to be changed. I always thought a good way to change that is to give the Marines an LBT cannon, an Unnerfed tank, with proper anti-xeno armor. (Note not to the extent to which xenos can’t kill it but to the Point where 2 runners can kill the thing or 3 drones.)
If you care about ghost rolling SO MUCH, just make so marines get a vehicle round start on 200 pop or something like it is right now. A compromise.
I personally don’t see it as an issue because otherwise vehicles are banished to a purgatory and are only available like five times a year. I would rather take ghost rolling than that.
Well, if vehicles were to be utilized more - marines can learn how to play around them, with cade building and such. The only other vehicles marines see are the rare ARC and an occasional colony truck. No wonder no one prepares cades, or even knows how to work around armored vehicles besides treating them as a gimmick.
This isnt an issue of marines playing around the tank, its an issue of most vehicle crewmen just sraight up being bad faith players, or otherwise bad players who are given a 3x3 immortal to bullets vehicle. which means in most cases they are going to rush the xeno to do something (they wont) and in most cases just block marine bullets or run them over and deny them a kill.
You can ask any player who played with vehicles and they will tell you (if they arent one of the vehicle players) that it was horrible.
You want tanks or apc in the game untill one of them sees you get lunged by a warrior, and pushes the warrior into the hive thinking hes helping you, while also pushing you with the warrior.
I think Tank should be removed and replaced with APC, purely so that if tanks are ever added back in another way they can be as good as they once were.
re add tank with the overpowered LTB cannon, but prevent it from using foldable cades, so every cade either has a huge hole in it or tank cannot take cover behind it. Let crusher/queen/prae block it like they used to, force the tank crew to survive in a trial by fire
A tank is closer to the King as a game piece. But the tank isn’t anything like the nuke OR King game-ending wise. Problems with the tank:
Funny tickle guns that mean the tank is a marine obstacle in the way of the real guns, or the tank guns obliterate and its imbalacned. Pretty sure we’ve had both during the lifespan of the tank.
Flimsy armor that makes the tank delicate and unfit for battle against xenomorphs, or tough armor that oppresses xenos because it can’t be delt any meaningful damage. There’s something about it being weak to acid but like, nobody actually fights the tank like that (it gets slashed until the treads break then surrounded as marines flee).
Limited opportunity role, no tutorial, high value asset that can’t be replaced that has a high chance of ruining the marine effort its mean to support. The tank will never be good, it’ll be a mediocre liability like its median playtime between rounds reflects.
I agree that the tank is nearly not strong as it is treated by some players and most of the times it is truly a liability since there are very few people who played tank and know how to play well enough to help the marines, one of the main issues is that different from the APC, the tank can only be a war machine with no support mechanics like the medical APC or ther gadgets that would make it more support rather than a frontline weapon(I am not sure if the command APC was a thing back in the day).
I experienced a few tank rounds and i really didn’t feel like it was not strong or helped enough to be the “reward” for 200 pop, what really solified that the tank is not that strong specially in the hands of people who barely played (98% of the cm playerbase right now), it was in a tank event that i participated, something about Falling Falcons Tank unity, we had a few events like this with different roles, the point is, it was 4 tanks and xenos were granted multiple t3s to make for it, the map was kutjevo refinery quite the open map but marines barely managed to hit medical before being repelled to the FOB with multiple tanks being broken and needing repair, while a single t3 or two t3s could easily deal with a tank and the tank dmg was not enough to be a threat when you had essentially atleast 2 t3s for each tank, it was a clear Xenomorph Major, i can’t point any issues with command or marine lacking pushes since we were depending on the tanks to do that, it was miserable experience specially when i was expecting some kicking ass, but it ended being a one sided battle with barely any t3s being killed.
So essentially we either try to make a some sort of tutorial for a tank (unpractical), or you know, make tank more accessible precisely for the sake of players getting more practice and actually learning how to utilize it.
Alternatively, we can just accept the defeat, banish the tank into oblivivion and go ahead with the same idea, but with the APC (everyone forgot that I suggested armored vehicles to be purchasable, not just the fucking tank). Obviously everyone will choose the second option, but at least we had a choice.
And APC kinda fits well since it already has several different Interior types. One thing I don’t know is how the Interior will be choosen. Will the different Interiors be purchasable individually (like the OB shells) or it’s completely up to the vehicle crewmen? Honestly, both have their merits. The first one lets balance out the point prices according to the Interior usefullness, and the second one is (arguably) more convenient in general.
Realistically I believe you’d need to undertake a complete examination of what a tank is going to do and how it should be implemented, instead of just re-adding it but with X, Y and Z as meta constraints.
I’d also support someone making a tutorial for being a vehicle/tank/APC driver. I admit this is closer to a “when you code it” issue. Nonetheless currently the Tank is basically an over glorified joke role that is usually consigned to being found abandoned in a ditch somewhere near the frontline, after it has proceeded to break some vital barricades and run over a lot of Marines.
Tank and APC never will be viable, its too big and and obstacle for marines. 2x2 entity is reaching, but 3x3 is straight up too big.
You want to make a small test? Make king 3x3, or atleast 2x2 and give it power loader controls. No other nerfs, nothing. Then watch and learn how it is worse in combat to a regular T3.
Tank and APC should have been removed from marines and replaced with Combat Loaders and 2x2 roofless jeeps.
There is no reason why two people should be given so much power over the round. It is already a problem that if SADAR spec, or pyro sucks, then marines are straight up fucked unless hive is bald. If Tank is balanced, but tank crew sucks, marines are fucked. If Tank is balanced, but tank crew is robust, xenos are fucked.
Tank replaced with two combat loaders would be essentialy just two additional different specs in terms of power.
But we will never get Combat Loaders. Say it with me again: “We don’t want CM to turn into Gundams”. Even though Combat Loaders exist lorewise.
