You created a strawman, beat it and then proclaimed victory.
Do balance the game having this top 5% in mind, instead of ignoring them. Vampire lurker got nerfed because of that (I was one of the big haters of original vamp), so now you can nerf/rework MOU, but not only because top 5% could do a lot with this gun, but also because in comparsion to another marine shotgun, it just outclasses it in everything but not being able to use buckshot.
Yeah, like M37 is forgiving about making mistakes, right.
The only skill involved is just reloading the gun fast. Other than that, everything that applies to MOU, applies M37 too. All that about being weak at diagonal combat and stuff. It is the same with M37, but M37 has much, much, much, much worse firerate. Tatical shotgun found in armories is a big no-no to bring groundside, because it shoots twice as fast as M37, but MOU that shoots even faster is all kosher.
I do not compare MOU to Warrior, or MOU to flamer. I compare MOU to M37. In comparsion to M37, MOU is clearly better. It shouldn’t be the case.
It is very possible but is sorta a when-you-code-it sort of thing. I dont really think m37 flech lives up to the power level of other guns, altho m37 slug is a respectable secondary in its own way.
M37 slug is still useable for supportive playstyles as a quickswap with Ag RS or Ag MH. that’s about the end of my essayposting 4 now i may reply again later. I agree m37 is underpowered or maybe mou slug is overpowered but yeah niche just means capabilities and playstyles it promotes and mou flech is very distinct as a situational ranged burst dmg secondary compared to m37’s stun melee weapon secondary. They overlap in some ways.
Strong, situational, and counterplayable secondaries IMO add a lot more depth than they take away from the game.
While we’re comparing the shotguns, should the m37 be better than the MOU?
In most the aliens media I’ve seen/played, shotguns are a secondary weapon for c̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶e̶n̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ keeping things away and big bursts of damage. Buck and slugs seem to do that to a T.
MOU meanwhile is a restricted weapon. That class tends to be more complex items which can make a big impact used properly, that we don’t want John Private taking by accident, and to regulate how many marines can bring.
IIRC the choke was made to make the m37 competitive DPS wise if you wanted a more flavorful primary?
No and I am not claiming it should be better. It shouldn’t be that much worse with a buckshot nieche.
But one is just much better at almost every single scenario and it isn’t the main gun. Also, maybe in games, or media, shotguns are secondary weapon to a marine, but CMSS13 lets you see 7 tiles away from your character at best if it is perfect light around you. Also in the same CMSS13 shotgun is just one of the four primaries, one being Mk2 pulse rifle, other M39 submachine gun, another M4RA and in the end, M37 shotgun.
Is that really true? Lets see.
Mk2 Pulse rifle-esque restricted weapon.
HPR. Worse recoil, worse scatter, worse accuracy, slower firerate, slightly worse damage, pretty much non-existant AP mags, a lot less attachements availability, bigger slowdown when wielded, possibly bigger wield delay. That is for cons. Pros: It has much, much, much more ammo in a regular mag, it is a good combo with bipod, it can use holo-targetting ammo.
Mk1. Worse scatter on non-burst shoots, slightly less accuracy, a lot less attachements availability, mags are less available, can’t really discard empties. Cons, and for pros: More ammo in standard mag than extended for Mk2, slightly better burst scatter, one more bullet on burst and slightly faster firerate on burst.
As we can see, those two weapons don’t outshine Mk2, HPR goes full into sustained fire at the expense of everything else basicly. HPR has a nieche of never ending pulse rifle fire at a big cost in comparsion to Mk2. Mk1 gives more ammo, but goes hard into the “generalist” subtype, can’t be customised basically at all, you get more ammo per mag and your burst is better, but some parts of the rest suffer, or stay the same.
Now for sidearms.
VP. When compared to Mod88, cons: Ammo is resticted, less bullets in each mag, worse recoil when wielded and unwielded, worse burst scatter, slower firerate, less AP (countered by higher dmg per bullet), worse attachement availability. Pros: Much better damage falloff, slightly more accurate, integrated rail/laser sight hybrid.
SU. When compared to M4A3, cons: Ammo is restricted, worse recoil when wielded and unwielded, worse recoil when wielded and unwielded, slightly worse accuracy when wielded, ammo worse than regular for M4A3, almost as bad as HP against armor, while much worse against no armor. Pros: Has 3 rounds burst, built-in IFF, more ammo in mag(not sure about this one).
Sure, revolver sucks major ass, but other regular sidearms are already better at it in most cases while it has a nieche of having heavy bullets. The difference between shotgun and pulse rifle is much bigger than difference between M4A3 and revolver. M10 is more of a machine pistol and is unique in its own way.
M4RA next, which means it is XM88’s turn.
Cons: Much worse recoil, much worse wielding speed and worse wield delay(possibly), much worse firerate, slightly worse maximum range, stores less ammo inside, ammo is restricted, slightly worse attachement availability. Pros: Ammo deals more damage to unarmored target(M4RA with AP beats it though), unique mechanic of better damage and AP with repeated hits.
Flamer and GL have no standard marine counteparts, unless underbarrel flamethrower and underbarrel grenade launcher are considered as such.
All of that while MOU vs M37. Cons are that it can’t use buckshot, doesn’t have muzzle attachements besides bayonet and it can’t store as many shells inside (countered heavily by firerate and reload that isn’t even that much slower from M37 reload), less accurate and slightly worse recoil, while pros is literally everything else. Better with slugs, better with flachette, faster firerate despite being under-over triple-barreled shotgun. Any situation you can imagine while using slugs and flechette, MOU does it much better than M37, while M37 has a buckshot nieche at that is it.
It makes is slightly better for flechette (MOU still much better), makes slugs almost completly useless and increases potential buckshot DPS at the cost of stun, so just makes buckshot into more close range, but also more damaging flechette. And it will still shoot slower than MOU.
i can’t take the rest of your post seriously after this, i didn’t even read the rest of your post after this
HPR does ~350 DPS to light targets (more than MK2) and for anything ≤40 armor, the raw DPS is better than MK2 AP rounds. it even uses the same ammo as the MK2
@DukeofCagliostro the fuck is that reaction bro he’s literally just wrong here, read the code
Are you using the bipod stats of the HPR against the non-bipod stats of the Mk2? Because you do know that the Mk2 can also take a bipod and get an even faster rate of fire than the HPR, right? It can even load AP if you want to disintegrate the nearest T3.
Left is the HPR with a bipod deployed, right is a mk2 with bipod deployed.
HPR base ROF is 300 RPM, or FIRE_DELAY_TIER_LMG, mk2 base ROF is 240 RPM or FIRE_DELAY_TIER_11
The advantage of the HPR is both rate of fire and ammo economy compared to the mk2. However, it is worth noting that a bipod mk2 with AP does out-DPS a bipod HPR on armored targets, but a normal mk2 with AP does lose out in DPS against a bipod HPR. (220 DPS, 180 DPS, 132 DPS) (assuming 30 armor).
I was using wiki stats here (too lazy), so it isn’t correct 100% (which indeed is my fault). Also I assumed vanilla guns without any attachements as pointed here:
So in cons for HPR delete “slower firerate” and add to pros “faster firerate”, scatter might also be changed, because I’m not a code grease monkey, I don’t know if higher tier scatter means it is worse, or better. HPR still isn’t straight up better at everything Mk2 does, but one thing. In short as pointed out by BOBAMAx:
But the rest goes for Pulse Rifle. HPR doesn’t outshine PR in almost every scenario. There are still multiple reasons to take pulse rifle over HPR even if you have access to both. What are the reasons to take M37 instead of MOU if you have access to both? You want to use buckshot. That is all.
Somehow didn’t post my entire thesis statement in my post, and bird summed it up for me.
M37 is a secondary weapon, MOU is a primary. The different roles shouldn’t necessarily be compared by killing power, but instead by the utility of buck to keep T2/T1s away from you, and slowdown so you can weapon juggle to a main battle rifle.
HPR bipod is the same gameplay style as PR bipod, but PR bipod has less ammo in a mag. MOU gameplay difference between M37 is that you shoot 3 shoots in a quick order then reload and then you do the same all over again, while with M37 you shot, pump, wait for a firerate cooldown to pass and then shoot again and that over again 10 times to then reload. Such a radically different gameplay.
Only if you assume that M37 is using buckshot only, then sure, buckshot is all about PB.
In your headcanon, yeah. But it is just as primary weapon as pulse rifle, or any other that fit only in armor suit slot, or back slot (with M39 exception of fitting in a special belt).
I rest my case, there is no futher point in arguing. Devs already nerfed MOU once, xenos won’t stop complaining and MOU will be nerfed again, I am satisfied enough.
there was a PR that removed the interact with other hand macro among some other ones such as interacting with storages through keybinds and it caused riots man
