Neutered Honor Code, Nerfed Predators

Development Ideaguys
1 
The Gist

I’ve have seen a similar argument made by “Wintermote” on the “Why do people hate preds so much and how do you suggest we fix it.” forum post in discussions, and wish to forward this into the ideaguys channel. I do believe to have seen it made on Discord before, but I can’t pinpoint the origin.

I am not entirely for the complete removal of the Honor Code, but I am for a severe cut-down on the rules imposed on the Predator player; and for that to happen, Predators have to be considerably nerfed. My reason for which is not to set the bar lower for roleplay standards, and I do not seek to make Yautja weaker “just-because”. I believe that this is the only way to straighten out the whitelist.

The Honor Code currently exists for two reasons, when it should have only existed for one. Its first goal is to establish a level of high roleplay quality that every Yautja is incentivized to adhere to. In reality, much more emphasis is put on its secondary goal, to keep the strong arsenal of round-changing and busted weaponry, as well the predator’s robust phisique, speed, and equipment from ever being used aside from certain, rare, often times frustrating scenarios.

This should not be. There should have never been a secondary purpose of the rulesets. The Honor Code should have been strictly written primarily for the purpose of roleplay, its gameplay questions put in the background.

The Changes

For the Honor Code to be changed in any meaningful way, the Predators have to be nerfed to the point where there are no longer any limitations to what a Predator can and can not do in a round outside of roleplay standard.

That is it. There are many ways to do it.

  • Making them easier to kill.
  • Removing their ability to teleport to their ship.
  • Giving them larger cooldowns and less energy in their bracelets.
  • Weakening their interactions with player-built structures
  • Changing their abilities to harder-to-use / weaker versions.
  • Making both sides aware of the Yautja being present.
  • Dutch’s Dozen Distress Signal and Awakened Praetorian Kill Squads at mid-round.
  • Requisitions budget for selling Yautja gear, research opportunities from Yautja bodies.
  • Easier capturing of Yautja, less facehugger protection, abomination evolve unlock.
  • …

With that, you can allow them to do anything. Attack the hive. Attack the FOB. Attack the Captain. Attack the Queen. Dismember body parts, use ranged weapons, use fuel tanks as makeshift traps, use trophies however you like. Don’t have the player ask gameplay questions, have them ask roleplay questions instead.

The End

As someone who has the Predator Whitelist, I would love to see these changes. But this is an ideaguys thread. It is just an idea. How these changes will affect the game can only be seen through testing. One can only ponder and discuss. They might even impact it negatively, but I strongly believe that the risk has to be taken. Nerf predators to the ground, and unshackle them.

4 Likes
2
  • Making them easier to kill solves nothing but hurt ego.
  • This effectively adds nothing and only seeks to punish someone with arbitrary attrition.
  • The interactions with player-built structures are supposed to be limited already. Be more specific? How and what are they doing that merits a significant mention?
  • Their abilities are macro reliant. It’s difficult to simply click your bracer in the middle of everything and scroll the laundry list. Weaker versions of the primary plasma caster exist and subsequently weakening them further only aims at inconveniencing these players for player vs player interactions. (1) Suggesting to weaken something twice is not an effective balance strategy.
  • This happens organically through gameplay and (potentially) roleplay.
  • DD is usually filled with responders that just play as extra marines. This is not their purpose but it is ultimately how they end up. However, adding a DD ERT is/was being worked on. Awakened Praetorian’s will likely play the same as DD, them just ignoring the predators and heading toward the front.
  • Req selling gear for cash is not the purpose of Req. Research often gets Yautja-based chemicals from vials. Keeping the bodies in research really only brings a clustering mess of marines trying to ‘borrow’ the equipment or a break in. I’d like to see more than 3 chemicals associated with Yautja but it’s probably on the laundry list of other changes.
  • Yautja captures are pretty rare, rightfully so. They have very few facehugger protections and require RNG face swipes to remove their mask. Which is easy for most caste of Xenos that aren’t slow movers or quick kills.

I don’t feel that ‘making them easier to kill’ is a solution. It feels really disingenuous to read that.

3

As of right now, preds are quite balanced as is for killing on both sides with near 0 obligation to interact with them as a normal player, of course there is a skill gap to be able to solo the average pred player but making them easy to kill, cap and overall pushing them away merely for playing isnt the way to go about it.

Honour code is in place so there arent suicide bracer bombers diving into crowds of marines, cloaked preds shooting marines while invis and to ensure that they have minimal impact on the round. What isnt good is having a group of preds sieging FOB for whatever reason they come up with and the possibility to completely wipe it.

What I can see this doing is john marine logging onto CM, going groundside, seeing a pred then just logging off because they cant be bothered to deal with having all their progress wiped by a third party blowing up the front line.

While there are many directions the pred whitelist can go, I do not see this as one of them.

3 Likes
4

It seems that the point of the post has been misunderstood. I am not seeking balance changes, I am seeking changes to the Honor Code. And the only way to change the Honor Code, effectively removing most of its unnecessary gameplay questions, is to make Predators weaker.

  • There is no worry about SDs happening in FOBs if the SDs are made weaker.
  • There is no need to worry about the welfare of prey if you are a juicy target for both sides, and you risk dying rescuing anybody for whatever hunting purpose.
  • There is no need to distinguish from hunting grounds and FOB/Hive if entering one is a risk; due to Predators being easier to kill.
  • There is no reason to stop Predators from using ranged weapons and trophies they obtain to their full potential if they’re just as fair game, if not slightly more dangerous, to the people they hunt.

The Honor Code is publicly available, it is a long list of questions of which most could be cut down if there would no longer be the worry of a Predator abusing their role in the game. The issue is that predators will still abuse their role in the game, as has been shown in numerous player reports and complaints on both Discord and the forums - many possibly unfounded, perhaps the result of frustration.

To summarize. There should be far less Honor Code infractions in terms of gameplay, and far more reprimands for roleplay. And since so many Honor Code rules are in place to clamp down on gameplay, I strongly believe that those gameplay aspects are to be changed, nerfed, removed to such a degree that they no longer have to be considered.

With the goal of possibly removing limitations to where a Yautja can be at any given time (governed by the gameplay questions of the Honor Code), they should no longer be able to open metal and plasteel cades, deal less damage to fortifications such as metal barricades and resin walls/doors, and have them put at higher risk of entering either the FOB or the Hive.

The only reason as to why they aren’t allowed in the FOB or the Hive, and why Honor Code regulates it, is precisely what MrMoon mentioned.

And I find that such if-questions in the Honor Code are unnecessary, even as much as distracting from the core of what it should do primarily: Answer roleplay questions, not gameplay questions.

3 Likes
5

Pred rounds don’t even happen too often. Even when it is. Hardly any predators hop on to play against.

IF we make capping them easier, xeno will cope cause hive dive yippee. But just shut bracers of when in hive core. Basically shutting their equipment down in the proximity of the hive core. Good balance.

So xeno’s have a chance against the pred discord, who only join when one. Their gear gets stolen. Two. Someone gets capped

Oh yeah and give predalien thermal vision to see cloaked preds thats all. No more cloaked attacks!

1 Like
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Years ago we had a similar discussion on the old forums, or the old old forums. My thoughts remain the same in that its hard to balance towards a faction that most people don’t get to experience from their perspective insofar that most people won’t experience what it is actually like to be a Predator.

If my old experience as a Predator hold true, I suspect that outside of a Pred going full dishonorable murderbone mode (which usually gets you de-whitelisted or is saved for events) then its harder than you think to do well as a Predator when against a determined group of opponents, or even against a singular opponent in certain circumstances.

Yes, 1v1 a Pred has the advantage, but most xenos are favoured in 1v1’s against humans so I find that somewhat justified.

It’s akin to a Marine main dictating how Xenos should be balanced, or vice versa.

My ultimate opinion on Predators is this. The community perception and enjoyment, or lack thereof, regarding Predators stems entirely from the conduct and the playstyle of the Predator players. Ergo I find the concept of the WL to be the dominating factor regarding discussions of the faction, and personally I find its existence to be a positive and good force since it does hold the players to a better standard.

My question is. Would a player who died to a Predator be more or less angry if the Predator was weaker but able to be far more powergamey in their actions, or if the Predator was stronger but held to a far higher standard of responsibility and thus held back far more? I don’t think it really matters in the final analysis.

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Pred player detected

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use the roar…it decloakes preds…

9

I don’t have WL! I’m not even allowed to apply for the next 30 days because of a ban, lmao.