They did???
3 Likes
its identified one of the major issues with Vampire is its armour and speed off-weeds
lets nerf a part of its kit that has no impact on any of this
All these nerfs do is make it harder for new players to enter the role while not at all impacting the elite/veteran players who will continue to rack up high kill counts.
4 Likes
This is honestly just a marine skill issue
I nearly soloed OWL on LV with just an M41A with AP ammo. and Had I had another marine supporting it would have died (other than me getting swarmed by a t3 and sentinel mid fight)
1 Like
Honestly it is just marine skill issue. I soloed OWL on LV with just shotgun slugs and had I not have another alpha marine PBing me in my back I would have kill Queen, destroyer, abomination and predator hunting me as unworthy prey working together mid fight. I did it with a help of stunlocking them all with heavy revolver bullets and HEFA grenades.
14 Likes
cabal ur a m37 flechette permawielder
4 Likes
Not true, for years I used slugs, only recently getting bored of annoying warriors so I switched to flechette and actually started getting damage and kills.
While you were partying, I mastered the slug.
2 Likes
Love seeing the vamp salt about OWL that ignores the fact that there’s a pretty high chance I (or someone else) is pocket healer droning for him
He’s full health constantly because I’m pumping HP into him everytime he walks away from a fight for high uptime.
He’s fast because I have Frenzy on near 24/7 at one level below queen Frenzy.
He’s oppressive because I’m weeding either around, behind or even in front of him to keep his hp up and to make him even faster.
He’s not chaseable because I’m dropping clusters around his engagement area to control where you can and can’t fight him.
He’s winning because you keep trying to chase him into darkness or around corners to follow up when he’s “injured” - ignoring the fact that the last 2 groups to do that got wiped because he’s getting pumped full of heals around said corner by me.
8 Likes
Then make him play Spitter and do the same. I will wait for spitter salt, that gotta be hilarious. (I don’t recall ever seeing OWL xeno, guess I’m a luckey timezone).
Spitter is unironically OP, charged spit into spray one shots you into crit and damage over time finishes you off.
ik its not related but im gonna go on a rant about spitter just because i want to say my thoughts on spitter.
rant
The problem with spitter is it only applies tempo (temporary pressure), and is bad at applying long-term pressure (bonebreaks, permas). Ontop of that, its ability set is worse (high cds) then other t2s, even if “safer”. Its dps is almost entirely burst dps, but overall spitter has very low dps.
The inbuilt spitter combo is decent, only because of the burst dps instakill. A very effective single-target disable. (however the high CD on empowered spit is why its not op)
Despite its safety, you’d expect that means more impact per life, and thus worth it. However, its always a flat additive tempo, instead of the slowly-stacking up of “tempo” that long-term pressure applies.
And so, spitter is best used as supportive extra tempo for other castes. That way the other castes have an easier time applying pressure.
Despite all this. All castes have high-tempo, but most also have high impact, just in the form of bonebreaks. Not everything is created equal, I suppose. And as such, spitter has far less potential then other castes imo.
However, it can be so powerful on its own that it makes up for the loss of pressure imo. With good positioning, and a good situation for spitter, it can be a threat.
A big weakness, not interacting with spitter means u never die to spitter, since all their dmg is stacked on 1 ability combo. And the ability combo is only truly damaging to the front if u approach it out of position and/or try to take its position without good prep.
Spitter is bad at group vs group pvp (routs/tempo victories) because of low dps.
rant pt2
I think 2 spitters is potentially effective
Bait marines, use your ability on one. Your teammate saves ability for when another marine goes in to defend u guys. And then, divide & conquer.
An example, you could maybe easily outplay a 3, 4, maybe even 5-6 stack of marines if the terrain is good and lets u recharge in peace.
Spitters would need to bait REALLY hard to get bodies in a good position to perma, unless ppl are overextended… If it’s in an area where marines can easily just play it safe and recover the bodies, what even is the point in winning against a 6 stack w/ no bonebreaks or permas? Medics, especially good ones, easily drain out that long-term pressure.
However u get a ton of tempo in exchange! which your allies can use to destroy a front.
Then ur team contests the area, using that tempo to win other fights. Now ur alliance protects the perma bodies with their good defensive abilities. And you get a ton of permas for that teamwork.
You’d be able to max take the time out of 10 marines and 1-2 medics out of the front, but it won’t ever be more then that due to lack of long-term dmg. And if 10 marines really are there, you’d be getting pushed back easily and then they go back to what they were doing.
I think maybe the best option for spitter duo might evne be ambushing in backline, and maybe that’s their strength. If your solo, defend frontline/help teammates, if your duo, ambush small groups in backline/flank & own them is a viable play.
You can even do that as solo spitter with just 1 good backliner teammate, and go spitter backline since they’ll be able to cover you most of the time. A spitter to take out 2, a lurker to take out 2, and u have a great duo.
All tempo in the backline is amplified because of the time it takes for marines to respond, and lower group size.
On highpop, you’ll need more teammates, since stacks can go up to like 8 on highpop backline. Unless it’s a good map like solaris, where xenos just have amazing terrain in backline.
On lowpop, you could probably frontline duo spitter and win since the front stack is only like 14 marines max, and you can just permaflank them, never letting them get close enough to kill you. Your pressure alone in terms of kills is just enough, especially since medics will be less protected then usual and u can just get them.
So spitter… it’s hard to say for sure if it’s good or not. While it may not have as good an impact as other castes, that does not mean it has 0 impact. It is still effective at what it does.
Maybe situational is a good term.
1 Like
Spitter:
Tactics written in biblical-sized walls of text:
Use terrain to your adventage.
You are support to other xenos.
Bait marines.
Use a tempo other xenos create to win other fights.
(based on wiki) you are slower than defender, try to be smart when backlining, don’t fight off weeds like at all unless with heavy support.
(based on wiki) your melee is basically slightly better than drone, or defender.
Go for medics, they are less protected.
Attack marines wearing armor that is worse against acid.
Vampire lurker:
Duh… run around, click marines with abilities, rush when hurt, get a drone GF to heal and phero you (optionally)
I say it. Either Vampire is OP as some say (marinemain crybabies and whitelist rejects), or Vampire is balanced, so that every other combat T2 is underpowered (centrist and whitelist rejects), or Vampire is underpowered and seems good because drone gf heals, pheros, weeds, clusters etc (xenomains giga chads and whitelist rejects).
Spitter is weak and actually countered by slug unlike vampire, because spitter has only about 30% more effective health (based on wiki) while being around (wide margin based on wiki and other posts here) almost twice as slow and with no teleports. If not for charged spit, I would call this caste complete waste of time and only a milestone to boiler, a waste of T2 otherwise.
Every single xeno greatly benefits from having a support, but there are castes and strains that don’t need it at all, but get ultra when they do.
It should be quite obvious I was a bit sarcastic previously, you can have 10 drone Gfs feeding you with every single fruit, healing you, giving you all pheros, weeding everything, building a lot, but in the end you rush marines, you get buckshoted/slugged/naded easly because you are slow and then you get chased and killed easly because then you are even slower.
Sure, one on one you can combo your abilties to kill a marine. You know what Warrior can do one on one? Rip your fucking head. What he can do one against multiple marines? Lunge you and then punch you deep into xeno frontline. You know what lurker and vampire can do in those situations?
Spitter has super low skill ceiling. Remove charged spit, take 5 armor and 250 health and you have a sentinel strain.
this is the cringiest thing I’ve ever seen
4 Likes
Marine main seeing teamwork for the first time
2 Likes
Hard disagree that “this won’t harm veteran/elite players”.
20 armour is quite significant, reducing that value will 100% make it easier for marines to punish overextending vampires. Even just doing 10-20% more damage is the difference between barely alive, ready to be healed to full by drone harem, or paincrit/dead.
Imo, I think alternatively headbite should get a higher CD. Currently, you can farm as much HP as there are crit marines, which means every marine you paincrit is basically fucked since you can chain several headbites in quick succession. It makes vampire too tenacious- No other caste can sustainably fight for so long.
shoot the crit marine. deny the headbite. deny the kill fun fact. they will die by YOUR hand not THEIRS
4 Likes
ya lowing the armor will really bust up the point of vamp. really i think that if the armour does get lowered the vamps HP needs to get upped, as really part of the issue with the high armor on the vamp is the fact that to hit the bloody rat you need a high RoF gun many of time… the only issue is that a lot of good CQC guns have poor AP.
meaning you can do jack all to them many of times. but at the same time if you take all the armor off with out upping the HP vamps are going to fucking melt.
Lowering the armor is the only way IMO. Vamp shouldn’t be tanky and fast and have high DPS at the same time. There should be trade-off and as far as I know vamp was meant to be more of a glass canon compared to other castes. Damage is scary, but unlike other castes you can heal, so you basically have a lot less downtime.
4 Likes
Yeah the tankiness ontop of having really good abilities feels like the problem… imo the aim should be more in-line with acid-rouny in terms of killability.
Maybe tie the armor more in with the abilities, so its more counterable… Overnerfing will just kill its identity as a caste tho.
I’m thinking like, +20 armor on flurry spriteclick for 5 sec, then it expires instantly if you flurry or tailjab (but if you hit a consecutive flurry spriteclick, it will just refresh the buff to 5 sec).
And then just reduce base armor to 0
Tbh idk how “op” it really is after the stun on tailjab got removed. Surely it’s not better then warrior.
We’re going to reach 100 replies on this forum surely more than a silly tailstab change is gonna do something right?
4 Likes
God, i wish i could band 10 people on the forums to nerf something in game.
1 Like