Speed is king
Armor is the best place to store mags though. Armor can only fit small items with the exception of mags. So using armor slots for mags is the most optimal. Using armor slots for small items is a waste. Using armor for mags spares you belt/pouch slot, which is pretty huge.
The more armor you have, the bigger returns it provides. Because of how the most damage mechanic works. But even if we look at pure numbers, the difference between medium (20) and mediumhigh (25) is 25%. Itâs far from âbarely betterâ. And compared to mediumlight (15) the difference is 66%.
My assumption is that melee armor works similarly like bullet armor.
Is melee armor damage reduction calculation different from bullet armor? If not then (assuming xeno slash with 0 AP 55 damage) difference between 20 armor and 25 armor is 27 divided by 32 which equals to about 0,84, that converted to percents is about 84%, which is 16% different, not 25%.
Comparing 15 armor against 25 armor in the same scenario otherwise, gives us about 44% less damage, not 66%.
I wouldnât call 16% less damage from RNG xeno slashes not aimed at feet/hand a âway better protectionâ. In an example against xeno having 55 damage slash, you get 5 damage less in heavy armor than marine in medium. In heavy (25) you get to -100HP in 8 slashes from full health, in medium (20) you do in 7. That is assuming all of those slashes hit chest/groing/arm/leg (not counting uniform that adds 5 melee armor on top Iâm pretty sure).
this is when looking at time-to-kill or hits-to-kill becomes important
Itâs also easier for people to digest; nobody viscerally understands â16% less damageâ, but they do intuitively understand âYou take 1 more slash before crit in heavy vs medium armorâ
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Turn, a time to kill.
Yeah, but then me saying it provides âbarerly better protectionâ as opposed to âway better protectionâ checks out as right. No xeno deals 55 damage with regular slash, so the difference of âaverageâ xeno hitting only your parts covered by medium armor vs heavy armor is like two slashes depending on RNG.
The only issue is the space imo. You will be getting more fractures but you can still reliably frag up to 4ish splints while with medium and above getting an unlucky leg hit into two splints on the same leg side is severely debilitating. I also found myself able to avoid splints completely for most of the round more often on light. Itâs just easier to avoid damage in the first place. Iâve also found that xenos barely change their attack zones from limbs even when going helmetless.
M4 is pretty nice for the slots and Heavy is still pretty good. But I think light works better with the majority of builds.
b12 is king
t. light user armor for almost 3+ years
First of all, letâs just see how much lurker tailstab (35 * 1.2) does against each armor:
Now letâs give everyone lurkerâs classic, 4 slashes aimed at right foot with CS (although it doesnt affect dmg I am pretty sure) + tailstab:
I disabled bloodloss oxy damage for the test, so itâs just pure brute.
Whatâs interesting here is that both medium and light armor users fell in pain crit for a few seconds, while heavy armor users did not.
Both light and medium armor users (in 3 tests) took 2 fracs, while heavy armor users didnât get leg broken. Both light and medium armor users were 1 slash away from hard crit, while heavy armor users needed 2.
Add possible meds on top of this (that will outheal some damage while you are getting beat up, giving you an extra slash worth of HP if not more), remember that some abilities aim chest and it does seem like heavy armor is king.
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Iâve used EOD heavy nearly every round Iâve played and likely still will. If I am able to take one extra slash while I fail to escape or manoeuvre Iâm not feeling very kingly while Iâm likely already on the floor. I might notice less shrapnel, but that might be cope, Iâm not sure. I have mainly played Comtech so I like the idea of hunkering down and not charging anyways. Too many in-game realities make it so that even if Iâm a Bravoid, I may still be forced to maintain both Comms and FOB. Iâm basically begging for the beating at that point. Speed lowers your potential exposure to danger. Marines are already significantly slower in a majority of the scenarios.
Iâm using other armours in other roles and I feel like the flash even if Iâm ffâed its never an insta
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So it seems that melee armor does work like bullet armor. It is 44% more damage between light and heavy armor and 18% (small numbers means bigger margin of error due to rounding up and down, probably still previously counted around 16%) between medium and heavy, not the 66% and 25% respectively.
So it is still one slash difference between heavy and medium, but you get one frac less. Light and medium being the same is funny though. Is it worth to be slower as soon as you get any pain?
King in just tanking. While you can just take B12 if you want that, or light armor for speed. So it is really worth it to wear light armor, after that is B12, them Medium/M4, then heavy. Sure that one less frac is nice, most likely also no IB on that leg, but that is it. Maybe if it had better light and had some mechanic to deflect <10 AP bullets then it would have a nieche. Barerly better protection than medium.
Honestly marine armor needs a rework (not a pure stats buff against xenos).
I donât know why are you keep coming back to these numbers. I compared armor values, not their actual effect. You said âitâs just one tier aboveâ, and it was just very silly, you shouldnât look at tiers, you should look at values and their difference.
It still a test in vacuum. Not every enemy is a lurker, you will often be on meds, or you could have just dodged the pounce in light armor. You shouldnât really make far reaching conclusions out of the test, though I must say I expected armor to be a lot less impactful. One slash can make a huge difference in combat, even more not falling in pain crit. Medium armor seems useless in the test, but again, if you are on meds you can reach the threshold to survive another slash faster than in light armor. Acid damage is also worth considering. Also I was testing time to crit, not time to kill. Not dying can be both bad and good. If you are in crit, itâs way faster for a medic to get you back on your feet. If you arenât in crit, you donât even need a medic, you can heal yourself. Which brings me back to my point: you apply less pressure on medics with more armor. Some xeno abilities can only be dodged like abduct, but also there is no guarantee that you will be able dodge all the incoming damage (both from xenos and friendlies) in light armor. The main point is that there is no clear cut answer of which armor is the best. If speed is really the king, why donât you run no armor. Itâs not a terrible idea with some builds, but it comes at a cost. As we see, xenos targeting feet doesnât invalidate armor completely, so thatâs a lot much more meaningful choice than many (including me) thought.
Anyway I find it interesting that many people discover heavy armor after years of light armor being meta.
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I simply disagree and I have shown my arguments.
Because the difference between no armor and light armor is massive in favour of light armor. No armor just lets you run faster, while light armor gives you light independent of gun, it gives you storage slots inside, it gives you weapon storage slot, it prevents you from dropping from one sentinel spit, it reduces all damage, both acid, xeno melee and non-AP bullets, reduces chance to gain a frac and such.
While difference between light armor and medium armor is slightly less overall damage which usually translates to one slash and adds one storage slot in exchange for some speed. Clearly light armor provides a lot in comparsion to no armor, but light armor to medium, or medium to heavy isnât that big, thus futher reduction of speed is not worth it.
Personally, iâve lately started to prefer B12 over light armor. The trade off just feels way more practical in actual fights. The little bit of speed you gain from light armor doesnt really make up for how fragile you become, especially when one bad hit or a lurker pounce means 1-3 fractures and youâre out of the round or crawling back to the field surgeon. Also, with the light armor, itâs just less viable to be a âpoint-manâ or a âfront-linerâ, which is my preferred playstyle, you will eventually get friendly fired by bullets, explosions, or body blocked.
With B12, you still move fast enough to keep up with the push, and chase the slower xenos, while also keeping you in the fight for longer from less fractures, internal damage, friendly fire etc. Light armor might sound nice for mobility, but in practice, the difference just doesnât save you when you actually get tagged, which is inevitable.
Another advantage with B12, or heavy armor, is that you cause less attrition to yourself, and the medics. Fewer fractures and revives mean less downtime, less strain on medical, less resources and time spent on you healing, and more time spent fighting instead of healing.
Iâd rather lose a bit of speed and keep my limbs intact than risk getting multi-fractured because I wanted to sprint 5% faster only to get magdumped by the PVT with a mag full of AP. That said, light armor definetly has its place if youâre playing some kind of hit and run/skirmisher, backliner role where mobility matters for chasing and positioning, or if itâs a very wide open map with lotâs of space to move around in and actually get the most out of your speed.
Ultimately it depends on your playstyle and the round, but for me, B12 just feels the most reliable overall.
2 Likes
Light armor is less armor and more of a slightly protective weapon holster with a couple of slots for magazines. You should probably have a weapon and goal in mind if youâre taking it, if youâre taking it to fight on the front, youâre basically wearing an inferior version of medium. B12 is the best all around set. In DnD terms, itâs 1+ medium armor, same speed and equipment slots, but better protection. If you keep a good eye on positioning, battle flow, and flanks, the xenos are going to have a hard time breaking any bones. With an emergency injector in you, you can survive for way longer than most xenos can reasonably deal with before having to retreat.
M4 is great armor too. Never checked the actual values, but Iâm guessing itâs basically medium armor. But for only 20 points, that extra slot really comes in handy if youâre bringing an inventory intensive kit down, like an M56D on your back.
Is that Brad Ward?
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Something a lot of ppl fail to mention is the greater your speed, the better you can control engagements (when to go in, when to leave, etc).
Something a lot of ppl fail to mention. If your idea of good positioning is standing back away from the fight - this means you cannot leverage close range options like m37, mou, m4a3, mk2, m4ra, smg and end up relying excessively on teammates. You have to stand in a weird middle ground because you canât respond quickly - but also canât leave quickly, leaving you more vulnerable, less actionable, more obvious, less useful. If your far pushed up with say, a m39, armor actually becomes helpful, and itâs easy to think âoh itâs terrible with super close range guns!â, itâs not because m39 likes pushing weeds, likes enemies running at it headfirst (because it often wins in cqc), and is just simple to use in general. âLong rangeâ guns in comparison, allows you to better utilize your range, effective range, and thus zone more effectively (because in reality, mk2s are best in 3-4 tiles range, but useable in 5 tile range, and pretty unuseable in 7 tile range just because enemy too far to shoot) and also allows you to actually utilize zoning and push points. Itâs very infrequent to get a kill that starts at 7 tiles and ends at 7 tiles - you usually startt at 3-4 tiles and end at 7 tiles at most, or if you get a m37 pop maybe starts at 1 tile ends at 3. So every tile matters to keep in range there and maximize your dps even with teammates. The higher your dmg output or kill threat the higher your pressure. The higher your pressure the more safe everyone around you is when your taking new areas. Thus the greater your positional superiority - which is effectively the impact a single marine provides most of the time.
When you want to push a point, thatâs where light armor shines because you can position closer to enemy more safely. In medium or heavy youâre often stumbling over your feet unless your positioning is literally perfect because you simply canât meet the pace of the battlefield and bring your contribution without being in semi-close range with your rifle (on the frontline that is). In no armor xenos can defend specific tiles easily from you because you basically have no HP thus you cant do sustained combat at all and spend more time in medical downtime then actually doing anything (but there is certainly situations where itâs super advantageous to have no armor - a super fast marine IS incredibly powerful and high in pressure, but it becomes really really hard when 1 bullet fracs you or you canât pb bcus u get slashed once and die). In heavy armor xenos can defend specific tiles easily because you stay in longer (take more hits) go in slower (take more hits, be more obvious, be easier to run away from, be less impactful, easier to hit abilities on, overall just way easier to fight and punish because its obvious how much you can do and how little you can do and how little you can control these variables without enemies making a massive mistake, since your positioning is most often gonna be way easy to outmaneuver)
The reality is - living with slow movement is often the wrong play, even if itâs an enticing, easy play, because playing in zombie slowmode makes it harder to do anything you want to do. This is the same reason you should get every frac fixxed (asides from it significantly lowering ur ttk, because the less you can dodge the faster you die + pain from splint undone is bad).
And further, you can avoid 99% of fracs from enemies on front even if it seems impossible. The only things u canât really avoid are allies. Almost all fracs are a misplay and the ones that arenât are probably your teammates misplays (which in a roundabout way, is your own misplay because you can take teammates into account while pushing). Not to say there isnât rounds where EOD is probably the right choice (ie: your fighting berserker ravs and want to live longer even if its only like .5 seconds) (Or your using m39 where that .5 to 1 seconds actually matters because you get like 200 extra dmg off and end up fragging the enemy) (Or, you have 200+ ping and canât make use of speed anyway)
Iâm not gonna say you canât make EOD and B12 worthwhile - but imo its more trouble then its worth and will probably never match up to light armor unless you arenât someone who pushes frequently, supports frequently, or shoots enemies frequently. Maneuverability and agility is too important in this game to ignore for such minimal stat boosts (at least while frontlining - where you can realistically avoid almost all ability combos).
Your only advantage with EOD and b12 is when your getting hit. You sacrifice a permanently active speed boost for this effect which realistically does not help nearly as much in comparison to speed either way.
Almost every marine wearing light armor/no armor is the reason why I have started aiming chests as vanguard and other xeno castes.
People might try and shrug off a broken foot or leg, but they will have much more difficulty ignoring lethal organ damaged and fractured ribs (which I must remind you come off very very easily thanks to friendly fire).
I already once permaâd a sadar because I heartbroke him with a tail pierce, very funny.
2 Likes
Vanguard has an easy time against all armors I think. Impale is crazy good, fling is good vs slow ppl, dash is good vs everyone
I love that some people are like âYOU NEED LIGHT ARMOR TO SECURE KILLS BECAUSE SPEED IS KING BRO, I REALLY NEED THE SPEED. I DONT PLAY WITH TEAM MATES IN THIS TEAM GAMEâ
Most of the kills is when marines push together⌠and guess what? A heavy armor is better in those moments. Sure, Light armor is good if you are skirmishing for 15 minutes or in the backline, but for 90% of the round you are either pushing into caves in a marine hellpush or defending FOB where speed isnât needed.
Heavy armor is king and nothing will change my mind.
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