I feel like for box/drum fed weapons like the HPR or M2C at least, it might need something like the smart gun has in terms of reload instead of the windup. Where you have to alt click on the weapon to reload it.
The m56d should be left untouched, its already weak as hell as is.
Just wait for req to get one of those fancy M270 Combat Tool Belts or browbeat one of your squad engies into giving you 15 of their points - it’s a pistol belt +1 mag if you don’t want tools. Sadly no explosives fit in it
If we just leave it to the amount of actions, people will just macro it. Reloading already requires a ton of actions (unweild, change hands, click gun, drop mag, click storage, click mag, click gun, change hands, weild), but because you can macro (or set some preferences) basically everything of it, you can do this in an instance. So a hardcoded and uncircumventable delay is required. It should be either a wind-up, or an increased weild delay, or something else if we want reloading actually take time. I proposed this as a joke, but honestly there is something to it.
Nobody wants another “throw delay screwing up literally everything” untested (being generous instead of saying it was implemented even after testing) hotfix
Yes but it’ll only make the game worse
If you wanted to, you could set it up that the ‘tactical-reload’ function can be tied to a hotkey, wherein it will draw a magazine from either your belt, mag pouch, or armour. Tac-reloads have a base time of around 1 to 2 seconds to reload the gun which could establish a basline of reload speed.
In terms of, 'realism, or ‘balance’, you can throw all those arguments out of a window when the current hotkey system is such that someone can easily hotkey a reload setup that can take 0.5 seconds to pull off. I know since I use it for my reload setup and it works very well with a Smartpistol or M4A3, and if you observe a fairly competent player, you can easily see them pull off a instant reload in less than a second with any gun.
Worse how exactly? You need to elaborate on this a bit. In most shooters reloading does take valuable time. Some FPS are notoriously known for their comically long animations of reloading. This is nothing new, running out of ammo puts you at disadvantage, so you must plan your reloads ahead and/or have a weapon you can switch to.
More than that, reloading wasn’t always this trivial. There were no hotkeys for interacting with equipment, so you had to click manually. You still could do it relatively fast, but it was objectively slower (and harder) than pressing a few keys on your keyboard. This is another case of QoLs affecting balance and gameplay, now reloading is instant and simple, which makes it irrelevant, you don’t need to plan ahead as much, it’s not that crucial because you can instantly switch mags. As opposite, if reloading delay was a thing, it would add some tactical depth to the game, make another important variable for guns to balance them out (hpr would have a longer reload, m39 — shorter), and make sidearms very viable.
Ehhhh. While I do get your argument, I think having a skill component here is fine. We already have stuff like the Smartgun taking extra steps to reload – if there were a weapon that really needed balancing around their reload speed, that’s one way to do it that gets the player more mechanically engaged.
Adding a timer just abstracts away the interaction. That’s okay for mechanically complex and time consuming actions like field-stripping and adding attachments, but reloading a weapon is something career gun users drill into the ground and do constantly. And we’re already simulating manipulating the magazines via the inventory system, which is the most time-consuming part of reloading most handheld weapons.
It’d be like adding a stamina bar for basic Xeno attacks and tackles. Can you justify it from a real-world perspective or balance in the abstract? Sure. Does it introduce a tactical element? Yep. Should we add it? Maybe if there’s a big balance problem we can’t solve otherwise, but adding it for the sake of adding it would feel arbitrary.
I agree, the SG requiring you to physically alt click to open and close the feed is pain, since it forces me to toggle my HUD on and off every time instead of being able to rely on hot keys only.
Instead of tactical reload timers being added to regular reloads, I think adding a similar mechanic to non-SG guns would be more satisfying, since a player can shorten it by getting used to it with experience while stopping hotkey-instant-reloads, instead of having to sit through a timer they can’t influence in any way.
There is a delay between xeno attacks you cannot bypass by clicking faster or by using hotkeys, so I am not sure what did you exactly mean by this comparison.
If you add a way to influence it, people will try to optimize it. I am pretty sure it’s not hard to make a script that alt-clicks a certain spot on your screen, for example. Yes, this is cheating and we don’t have to necessary account for this, but it is still an incentive to optimize your “influence”.
Imagine if all guns didn’t have firedelay and your ROF were dependent on the amount of clicks per second? Yeah. Sometimes you need to put hard timers, because there needs to be a ceiling for the stuff a player can do.
If any delay is to be introduced (this really should apply to every single delay) it needs to have a visual indication that timer is in place.
I don’t want to experience being able to click faster than reload delay and wonder if it is a ping/lag issue, or it is a delay. A little flashing red dot in a corner on a gun, something like that.
What about making reloading consistent and requiring less player input, while being ressistant to external fuckery? Reload hotkey. Simply press a button with your gun in hand and it will unwield it (if it wasn’t already), change your active hand and try to locate mag/handfull of bullets in your belt/webbing/pouch/armor/satchel and then it will put it in your hand and perform tactical reload that won’t be interrupted by moving (like splinting bodyparts).
Then apply the same delay to doing the same, but with clicks.
we already have this except you have to press 2 hotkeys + have the right settings
Yeah, I know there’s a maximum rate. Could’ve been more detailed with my example. Meant like the usual action/rpg implementation of a stamina bar where you have so many number of attacks before you need to stand still and stop acting to recharge. Just an example of something that would add some kind of intermittent delay as a point of comparison, because…
… I totally agree that you need hard timers on certain action. Fire delay being a very important example. But I don’t see fire delay as a precedent or fair comparison for reload delay. Couple reasons:
First, firing a weapon is point and click. It requires a single consistent input that most anyone playing CM13 can likely manage without that much thought behind it (accessibility factors and PB jokes aside).
Whereas reloading a weapon requires a number of distinct inputs that can change depending on your circumstances (where your ammo is, which type of ammo you’re loading if you’re using multiple, whether you’re loading from a handful or a magazine, and whether that weapon has unique reload inputs, whether you have to do a tactical reload since you’re missing a limb, etc).
Second, firing a weapon is something you generally want to do more than once sequentially. You want to pump as much damage into your target as you can. Considering the simple physical execution of Just Click Bro, having no fire delay means every gun is a bullet hose for anyone who can click fast. Which is obviously bad, so we want to limit that action.
Reloading, though? You do it once, then do something else. There’s no real concern with spamming it, both because there’s really no need to and because it requires a series of distinct inputs. So I don’t really see why a delay is mechanically necessary when we already have a more complex physical execution in place acting as a barrier to entry.
I don’t think the first argument holds up, because the current reload system can already technically be optimised even further with these scripts. Cheating is always a small minority of the playerbase, and I doubt people would go for automating reloads when they can just automate aiming and kill all xenos with near perfect accuracy instead. Imo, the people who would automate reloads are the people who would cheat with aimbots anyways, so making reloads require an alt-click will not increase the number of cheaters.
I mean, this is one of the reasons I suggest to maybe change the current system.
Problem with the current system is that you can do reload in a literal instance, which makes running out of ammo pretty much irrelevant and sidearms somewhat impractical (which is what this topic about). So I think some hard delay on reloading (or a windup, like with tactical reloading) could solve both of the problems.
Sounds interesting, I wonder if people would actually bother using sidearms if reloading did become an actual tactical decision. Would be worth test merging to see what happens. I suspect so many people running pistols might make T1s cry, since pistols are currently uber rare despite their insane burst damage.
Yeah, but this somewhat “forced” for everyone would be better if a reload delay/windup would be introduced.
What? Carrying five pistols, two in the pouches, two in the belts, one in the harness and a 9mm ammo box on the back is practical and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Sidearms aren’t very good most of the time. The sidearm I take the most is the 88MOD, and when I do, I put it in my backpack because it’s more like a tool I use to limit the time that defenders can slap the cades while crouching. The best sidearm for the space it takes up is the D-18. Refill the chambered round using 9mm, put a flash light on it, then shove it in your boot and forget about it until you need it. It’s great for scaring of T1s and emptying the magazine in yourself in less than 2 seconds to avoid capture. Most of the time, you really don’t need more from a sidearm. And as for losing the knife slot in your boot? Put a screwdriver in your second ear slot and use that for digging out shrapnel.
The issue is less that sidearms take up a lot of space, and more that as a marine, you need to use all that space to cover your basics. I don’t deploy without 2 medical pouches(injector/basic) and at least 10 magazines not including what’s in my gun.