As recommended on github, my idea for at least somewhat compensating the removal of thermals across all maps is to replace them with NVGs instead. All thermals (I’m lead to believe) except Augmented Glasses also give Night Vision, which is crucial for survivors ability to roam without the storage capacity nor reliable supply of flares. Removing offensive capabilities from survs via removing thermals further promotes un-enjoyable defensive cade-hugging molotov hold gameplay. NVGs could at least somewhat retain this, without necessarily being better than marine equipment.
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NVGs should never have been given to survs. If they need more vision in the dark, just give them a flare pack instead. No reason to give them what the USCM either doesn’t have, or have LESS off than a colony in the middle of nowhere.
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I’ve already explained why it’s good for survivors to have NVGs. Also, the USCM does have NVGs. Furthermore, I explicitly stated why it’s hard for them to store flares, additionally it’s very hard to roam and use flares offensively since you need to stow your gun or otherwise fumble with your inventory instead of being able to chase any xenos. And they give away your position much more readily than otherwise without.
Unless you don’t think that survivors should be offensive at all, in which case, that is where we disagree.
From a lore perspective, the colony is not in the middle of nowhere. First of all, it’s in the war-torn Neroid sector, oftentimes on planets which have already seen combat before. Secondly, most colonies already have caving, archeology, other exploits and industries which take place in the dark. Third of all, several maps even aside from nightmare inserts already have dead PMC operators, riot response teams (who oftentimes, especially in the context of a space station would use the dark to their advantage against less well prepared prisoners), and other mercenary forces etc. Finally, to really drive the point home, is that a lot of the thermal goggles and NVGs which are already in game have civilian connotations of use, i.e. ‘Bug-B-Gone’ goggles, Augmented Vision Goggles (the uscm even has an old malfunctioning AR visor, proving it’s common technology), Meson Goggles used by piping contractors, etc. They are already rare spawns in game as they are now.
You say it like survs NEED NVGs for roaming, when theres still maps they roam on and see success. Saying “Oh, its a good thing they have it”, and then basing it on “they need a buff because… They need it” isn’t justifying having it in the game. You could give every marine the B18 armor because they need the extra armor to survive xenos and FF(And if you don’t you don’t want marines to be aggressive, and want FOB siege every game). That dosn’t justify adding it to the game.
What NVGs have brought to the game (which has been proven throughout numerous rounds), is that one or two survivors get them, and get an insane advantage when it comes to information when they fight xenoes. The act of banishing the dark for your entire survivor time is insane when used properly. And if we go by the “nerf vamp” argument, one person who can 90% of the time get what they want and be super powerfull, shouldn’t be a thing.
They are “rare” in name only. They have locked spawn positions and ALWAYS gets picked up because they either ALWAYS spawn, or have a 50% chance to spawn. And for the love of god, don’t equate RNG to balance. It will never work out.
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It’s not a buff, survs already have / had a better version - thermals. I’m not saying they’re necessary, it just puts them on a more equal footing - I have no idea what you mean by ‘an insane advantage’, given that xenos also have night vision and furthermore supported by your own argument that survs can roam with or without it. Again, they aren’t super powerful, specs get it, IOs get it, SLs get it, and yet people still CHOOSE not to take them even when they’re offered, because of the hassle involved with marines using them. This is not a buff, this is an abatement of an incoming nerf.
It’s not game-changing, it’s not OP, it’s a small now-and-then item which can make surv rounds more dynamic by giving survivors a better chance at evaluating the tactical situation at hand. Please, elaborate on what you mean by, ‘insane advantage’ - over who? in what way is it ‘insane’ - how would it actually change the situation to such a degree?
sounds like you should give them flares
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If anything it should be the other way around. Survs having thermals, but not having NVGs would be more balanced than just survs having NVGs and not having thermals.
Other than that, just give them flares, flare pouches and flareguns.
And I am proposing that if survs need vision augmentation, they should have get thermals without NV.
They can see xeno, but they can’t see anything else, so they still need lights.
Cabal, I don’t know if you read the post, but all thermals give NV except for the aug glasses.
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A flare pouch for some survs expecially civilian survs would be a huge improvement over the small pouch you end up spawning with sometimes.
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You already spawn with flares with some survs however they’re inconvenient since they don’t last long enough and take up a nail gun worth of storage slot and dont go anywhere except backpack. Ammo’s already limited as is so they’re not as great as you say they are unless your holding a location and even then they’ll be acided because surv firepower on long range while defending isn’t great hence roaming increases chances of killing.
“Best defence is the best offence”
On another note Xenos are gonna get fragged either way cause skill issue.
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Survs roaming should be something that is discouraged, you lock xenos out of a decent chunk of building, and at this point surv gameplay and general vibe i get from surv mains is all playing as absolutely hard as you can in order to greif xenos as much as possible.
Survs as a whole could use a major rework, give them an escape objective in order to get into the almayer and dont make it insanely difficult to survive. You get a point you can hold, with the RP expectations of surviving leading into the almayers crew interacting with yourselves.
Literally just toss a droppod on the ground someplace, remove the thermals and overly strong loot from the map and give survs more mats/stuff in order to survive, pod has to be “calibrated” or whatever every now and then to stop roaming and just leaving it, and xenos can break it.
Surv gameplay that doesnt interact with RP at all gone, surv loot breaking balance gone, xenos still get to interact if they choose, but also have more map freedom.
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Remarkably, you seem to think that fighting xenos as survivors is griefing. Furthermore, you are advocating for the complete removal of the survivor gameplay loop as it is now - this is not the thread for you. Make your own ideasguys about removing survs.
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Anyone that advocates for survs to get NVGs should try to play against a competent one locked as drone during roundstart.
Nothing is more annoying than trying to build up a spot as drone only to have survs come chase you with NVGs and rifles and being unable to break line of sight. It’s made even more bitter when you then have to deal with the larva queue.
Thermals are quite amazing to have, as marine or surv, because you can collect accurate information within your line of sight(Including binoculars) and thus have an advantage over xenos. While information is incredibly important, its not that actually strong unless you can use it.
Maps that normally have night vision or thermals are usually maps where its incredibly hard for survivors to set up a fortified position and there’s not that many of them. Flares are quite frankly useless unless you have an endless supply of them, because they burn out in 5-7 minutes and can be easily melted(reducing them to around 2 minutes of life), so unless you are willing to give survivors endless portable conjurers of flares - removing night vision is a bad idea.
Inherently survivors are at disadvantage when fighting xenomorphs, simply due to xenomorphs seeing more and being more resistant to damage. A burst of bullets wont do much to a drone, but even two slashes can easily break a leg. Having equal ground of information with xenos makes it a little less unfair for survs, but they still are at a major numbers disadvantage and any competent hive can wipe out roamers. Unless survs will become a middle ground between preds and humans in tankiness - that’s unlikely to change. Only times when a xeno loses a 1v1 with surv is when it willingly positions itself for death, aka drones being utterly alone in the open without weeds and not retreating upon seeing a surv charge at them with a shotgun, or a runner missing a pounce and eating a Point-Blank shot.
This, by the way, never happens most of the time if the hive is competent in any way, which means having at least 3-4 xenos watching survs. If your hive doesnt do that, its best that you all forfeit the round and hope some prime xenos join next round.
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Just remove the actual seeing through walls part (seeing mobs) and make them more like improved NVG’s, since the current NVG’s are pretty shit in terms of visibility, having no color can fuck you over, and it has for me before, I honestly just turn off the goggles when there’s light because of how difficult they are to see.
Also just give them a battery as well, so you’ll need to actually keep them powered, then they’d basically just be like the marine NVG’s with improved color capabilities, nothing too special.
Also remove the silly monocle, eyepatch ect, give them all the same sprite, which looks more like NVG’s or something.
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Should a drone really be able to fight back effectively against a survivor who has looted around the colony? If you don’t want to die to survivors, don’t build up near them when they have gear. I sincerely doubt that you, as a drone, before combat caste evo, are getting hunted down across the colony without any ability to escape.
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Yeah no. Honestly I hate the attitude of “Survivors are too powerful, I keep dying as a Drone”, when drones can literally two-tap tackle you, tail-stabbing is incredibly strong still, you can easily break bones, since the colony armor is so dogshit, no armor protects limbs, apart from marine/PMC.
Goon armor only protects the chest, not arms and legs, people forget that, forget how weak survivors actually are even with “armor”.
Even then Drones are not “combat-classes”, so them complaining about not being able to nuke survivors instantly like a Warrior or Lurker can is just sad.
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you literally run faster than them and they have no movement/combat abilities
Not on weeds, and the cost of running faster than them is being extremely vulnerable to tail stabs and fractures, on top of oftentimes not having painkillers. Survivors are fragile and need to be rapidly aggressive to secure kills, since they just won’t last in an extended engagement.
I find it funny how you claim they have ‘no movement/combat abilities’:
Frenzy & Warding Pheros for movement and combat
Tail Stab
Weeds slow down humans
Queen Heal
Building & Remote Building
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This has happened to me multiple times, particularly on Shivas. One time, the survivor even went all the way to SE research, where the hive was, killed the queen, and then looted the egg (this was at 8 minutes roundtime)
E: I also think ya’ll are vastly overestimating the average skill of a drone player vs the average kind of player who rolls survivor
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