In delta alert currently synths can just frag out, there’s literally countless clips of synths fragging out with no self preservation once hijack happens.
It’s insanely stupid and immersion breaking that for some reason our synths become homicidal maniacs the moment a problem happens shipside instead of continuing to be y’know.
SUPPORT ROLE.
yea this kinda sucks, surv synth delta is ehhh yeah they kinda have a license to frag but you’re also kinda up against the wall. If they are ditching the survs to chase xenos around that’s a problem but they dont really have a choice unless you expect them to just stand there and die
Ship delta I notice a lot of synths ditch the marines entirely, corner themselves alone and then start whackin once a xeno comes, oftentimes ignoring bodies and stuff to do so
report them
Synthetic standards died a long time ago and the council is aware.
They are not prioritising RP and actively avoid it, most people seeking the WL aren’t interested in creating memorial RP experiences for themselves and others. They are drawn to nothing but the mechanical advantages.
I promise you Detectivegoogle the clips I’ve seen recently, none of this shit is self defence. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/490668342357786645/1327817381443010560/3_2_1_1.mp4?ex=678471cd&is=6783204d&hm=bb99c476877b212be810337eb6bc0bbc9e5b530fa2b2bdf4797d335aca634667&
You may say that it’s used that way, but you are newer to the whitelist, you simply do not know the reality that the clip above is the current accepted norm of the WL and is currently not punishable in any way.
You don’t need to corner yourself, you can literally go hunting for t1s and t2s and nobody will stop you.
@TheGamer01 It sounds easy to report them, but when this is behaviour promoted by the council, you quickly realize how powerless the avg synth is to try and effect positive change. That’s why I made the thread
Me when the burrower who snitched on me in hivemind and was baiting me into conversation to surprise me with a gank, during hijack, is used as an example 
(plus declared its intent to kill humans)
Report them on the forums so it’s in the open
I understand synths to be combat technicians and doctors with a lot of health.
I don’t know why so many synths are fighting so often, even charging in sometimes and chasing CLF/Xenos with a vengeance.
My biggest distaste with Synths is their combat. They’re basically human tanks and UPP synths are kill bots.
I agree that you think they’re not RP, but the power gaming class.
I don’t know the extent to which a synth can max out items, but I expect every synth to be capable of basic medding, bone gel/abortions, and welding barricades, if not also potentially carrying a single stack of metal.
Glorified pacifist medics that can build, and do comms. Since they’re “not supposed” to fight, they get more of their player interaction through dialogue, chatting up command, players, etc.
I do need to read through the standards more thoroughly, but defense of the most vital elements of the ship makes sense, but just Bordlands Psycho charging with the crowbar hammer throws me off every time I see a synth do it.
I would leave a synth alone 90% of the time, unless he’s “In my way” or trying to recover bodies outside barricades when I play xeno. If he’s far outside fob, and not going to get bodies, I won’t stalk him the whole way. Maybe check out what he’s doing and if I need to attack I would.
Just like in “Aliens” Bishop is left alone because he’s not defending anyone, or doing anything that seemingly makes sense to attack him for. He’s far out somewhere doing something I don’t care about. He basically is behind Marine’s out too far doing nothing, or literally between the queen and the last hosts.
I should clarify that this is not reportable behaviour and is as of right now, totally within the guidelines of synthetics and has been for quite a while.
I am using that as an example of a rule that I think is obscene and makes little narrative sense. We don’t see synths become murder machines in the movies the moment they see a xenomorph, why do our synths become psychopaths that kill on sight instead of the self preservation angle of avoiding conflict?
Remember this is a Policy thread and individual attacks aren’t in the scope of this category.
Putting different pieces of media as an example and reasoning for in-game changes is, to say the least - very stupid. If we consider movie/comic/book canons - you can twist the current balance so much that it wouldn’t make sense.
Xenomorphs are actually supposed to be shredded by bullets, right.
Oh, and there also can’t be self-healing berserkers since vampirism doesn’t make sense for xenomorphs.
Oh, and why are the spec weapons limited to just 1 person per squad? You don’t need months of practice to fire an RPG. Among with many other potentialy “changes for the sake of making sense/adhering to written and created comic books”.
To that atleast, the xenomorphs and marines, feel still like the xenomorphs and marines from said media. Sure there is some wiggle room with the xeno castes, but they are still xenomorphs at its core.
But with synths, in my opinion, have left the boundries set by the media, to the point where I don’t recognize them as synths from alien. The only thing they do that is similar (in my book) is that they are humanoid robots, that bleed milk. Everything else is just something else.
To add onto this thread and how synth is used for its mechanical advantages:
A trend I have seen lately is of synth players body blocking Alamo hijack by abusing their anti stun for most (and very short stun times for other things like warrior grab / queen screech) to act as a mobile barricade essentially to stop queen hijack.
Not only do Synths not have knowledge that the Queen can hijack, this is also an evidence point that Synth is used for its mechanical advantages, not for anything else. A medical corpsmen cannot body block queen to stop a hijack if Queen screeches or neuros, but a synth can.
I am not going to bother constantly recording my game just to “catch” these people, especially when its not just ONE synth specifically doing it; I have seen multiple different synth players do this. So its a symptom of the loose regulations that are placed on synths, not a single player issue.
I am not dogging on the Synth whitelist itself; other whitelists have similar issues, and I made a huge post about it when people complained about Synths the first time, but this is still pretty dumb.
I should clarify a few things for you.
I have been playing this game since 2015 and Synth probably since 2019. 5 years.
2 years of that I took a break from CM due to my unhealthy emotional investment in the community/game. When I I took a break in 2020 to late 2022/2023. I noticed a distinct and undeniable change that sort of shocked me when I came back. The quality and roleplay of Synthetics has changed so drastically I almost couldn’t recognize/realize that its direction vision took an entirely different path.
I believed from the inception of Synthetics that the role was going to be quite literally the movie equivalent. You’re going to drive story/roleplay in whatever capacity you can to give yourself and others fun whenever you could. But than the players changed. I accept that for what it is. Times change with the game. Than I noticed it changed with how they played and operate. The very concept and notion of Councils when I helped build them and foster them fundamentally changed. I understand your grievances and the grievances that most others in this thread/channels have. I understand that this isn’t quite the intent nor the vision the role had in mind when it was created. It most certainly doesn’t correlate with the vision the councils had for it originally, that part I consider mostly to be fault of my own and I accept that.
The current atmosphere today is centered around being solely good at mechanics and having a good story, however is not indicative enough of a good story. Good players like Jakk really taught me that. They felt like a counterpart to me as CO when I was playing extensively years ago. They showed character, unique dialogue/personality that I don’t find in many synthetics today.
But again to reiterate, the players and community itself has changed. I must accept that. At the same time it is tough as a player of such a stretch of time to accept the quality/standard that is exhibited today. I wished that more story and soul was put into the role and that there was more character behind what people choose to show. Some of you may consider that as just greedy of me. But as for the mechanics/rules of the Synths, I genuinely and wholeheartedly accept and agree with at minimum 75% of what your saying. I will make a conscious effort to apply and push for these changes to the greater benefit of players/staff/whitelisted players as a whole because I believe that some of these changes have the best intentions and needs of what is required to bring this whitelist back to a standard I find acceptable and even EXCITING to see. Some change may not be what I had in mind or wanted. But its not particularly what I want or dreamed of. Its what players in general wanted and asked for. I cannot code and therefore I consider this as my contributions to the game and community that I’ve spent so much time and invested much into.
Right. It’s about time I throw my two cents in here. As I was the one who broke the Camels back in this situation with my initial feedback thread. I do not speak for council as a whole. I speak as a player, who cares for this WL. My views are my own, not reflective of anyone else.
If we are too fix Synth. We are going to have to up-root the entire WL. We’d have to rework it from square one. Mechanically, Synth is fine. it’s been the culture of synths. It always has been. Players have been brought to think in very toxic mindsets to what the WL is. It is hard, to talk about, or even figure out where to begin.
A lot of talk about Synths being too strong for xenos, is honestly just - power-gamey Xenos trying to get Synths nerfed. Consider this, Synths do not have directional click, synths are really weak to acid. Yes, even industrial. Xenos, do not know how to fight a Synth - and so they are going to have to learn.
Currently, Specalized synths, Gen3’s have roughtly about the same amount of HP as a Marine with Light armor. Industrial have roughly the same amount of effective HP as a marine with heavy armor.
It is because Synths are always able to fight, regardless of HP, and are able to resist most stuns as a G3. It means that Synths appear more powerful to a xeno than what they actually are.
It has been a cultural issue of synths being seeing as a jack of all trades. As well as WL holders prioritizing a ‘win’ mindset. This can be reflected in how synths are handled under delta alert. However, I’d like to state - that a synth switching to this machine that will prioritize its own existence at all costs is in fact the point of delta, and not fragging out. Sometimes though conditions call for a synth to be ruthless and take out as many as it can before going down. I.E a swarm at lifeboats, or pods, since they are a a synths only means of escape.
now, I speak as a councilor. I hear you all - its rough. The WL as it stands is in a horrible spot, but it can be fixed it just needs time, be patient. I will say though after certain events, toxic behavior and calling for certain people within council to lose their status. That is toxic, I will not have it. Each member of council are putting in the work behind closed doors that you don’t see. I will defend this council, even the mistakes it makes - because I am going to be so honest here - its just a game and not a nation state, no one should get grey hairs over this WL.
“A lot of talk about Synths being too strong for xenos, is honestly just - power-gamey Xenos trying to get Synths nerfed. Consider this, Synths do not have directional click, synths are really weak to acid. Yes, even industrial. Xenos, do not know how to fight a Synth - and so they are going to have to learn.”
Using a one-sider argument against objectively the most powerful role on the entire server that is part of the TDM loop is crazy to me. I am both not a xeno main and not a powergamer either, and we have PLENTY of proof that synthetics do not require directional click to kill xenomorphs.
“Currently, Specalized synths, Gen3’s have roughtly about the same amount of HP as a Marine with Light armor. Industrial have roughly the same amount of effective HP as a marine with heavy armor.
It is because Synths are always able to fight, regardless of HP, and are able to resist most stuns as a G3. It means that Synths appear more powerful to a xeno than what they actually are.”
Irrelevant, their lack of pain plus smartpack defensive mode makes them near unkillable unless you have two lurkers to slow lock it, and even then as long as the synth hasn’t broken self preservation and run off alone during the height of hive presence they should never die. Players such as Wickedcybs literally never die once throughout a round because they are in no real risk. (Based on discord testimony)
“If we are too fix Synth. We are going to have to up-root the entire WL. We’d have to rework it from square one. Mechanically, Synth is fine. it’s been the culture of synths. It always has been. Players have been brought to think in very toxic mindsets to what the WL is. It is hard, to talk about, or even figure out where to begin.”
“I will defend this council, even the mistakes it makes”
So you defend the state of things as they are, including delta level allowing synths to cade pull and just run out and murder with no risk to self? I think that blindly defending the council and their mistakes is a perhaps poor wording on your behalf.
You can defend the good the council has made, but you shouldn’t defend the mistakes but take accountability for them. I’ll act in good faith and assume you meant that.
“If we are too fix Synth. We are going to have to up-root the entire WL. We’d have to rework it from square one.”
Would this require a new council? If the whitelist is to be entirely reworked would that mean the council thereby should be reworked as well?
“As I was the one who broke the Camels back in this situation with my initial feedback thread.”
I never read that thread to be honest.
" The WL as it stands is in a horrible spot, but it can be fixed it just needs time, be patient. I will say though after certain events, toxic behavior and calling for certain people within council to lose their status"
That is not the purpose of this thread, and condemning community members who act in bad faith is out of scope of the issue and a diversion entirely from the problems at hand by placing the council itself in the center as a victim when that is not the problem. The problem is the whitelist, any council member is inherently a cog in the machine. Please future posts keep on topic when talking about the whitelist.
I think ur takes in this post are more or less right on the money.
a big part of why I believe there’s such a powergamer mindset is that currently synth demands pretty much the absolute peak of competence in a few respective fields. While having a synth that doesn’t know how to do a task is kinda a character break and should be generally avoided, I would personally like to see how things go with more synths who are just kinda “good enough” at the big skills.
The “WL share” event is a big part of what drives me to that conclusion, during the event I saw a lot of really well thought out synthetic characters who roleplayed really well but would, I believe be denied on mechanical competency grounds due to stuff like weak cade theory.
To present an example, thespy’s “Ezra” was really fun to interact with and they had a really cool character that I liked, but watching them have to cade the FOB there was some stuff that kinda felt like it could use some work-- nothing so bad as to compromise the defenses, just not optimal cade theory. based on that interaction if they made an app and it didn’t go through because of the mechanical competency I’d consider it a personal tragedy, because while they are not an expert on the field like is currently expected, they did it “good enough” to not be a character break.
Synths fragging out during delta is an exception not the norm for sure, would be nice if it happened less obviously.
make a pr to remove the smartpack from the vendor/pmc spawns etc almost everyone I’ve seen talk about it agrees it’s OP goober garbage.
I don’t think you should have said this, but since you did I’m going to point out that this is largely because cybs is a cautious roleplay focused player.
like it or not acting in bad faith and being toxic undermines a user’s point and everyone else’s willingness to listen to it. If someone wants their points to be actually considered and processed and internalized they ought to do it constructively.
The difference between the synth and marine is noticeable because they
It’s like trying to kill a marine by slashing its chest. That means the slashes needed is like… 10-15 or so? And they are at full movespeed the entire time. Really it’s not that hard to see why synth is considered OP in survivability.
(it takes 14 warrior slashes to kill a synth, which is a 35 slash dmg attack! That’s 490 effective hp)
(Meanwhile it takes 2-3 warrior slashes to frac a marines foot, 70-105 effective hp on foot. Then 3 more slashes to kill. Thats like… 210 effective hp about? With a frac very quickly ofcourse, painslow, and other debilitating injuries.)
They can use their tankiness to
7. Support teammates with shakes to give them immunity to stuns.
8. Grab teammates to immediately save them.
9. Get away from any mistakes in positioning (which is very very useful in combat).
Alongside this
10. They can be revived without a timer
Theres a reason they go off solo all the time and don’t die and, realistically, synth is very very tanky. This gives them such an immense margin of error in 99% of situations that there is basically 0 risk if they just don’t fuck up horribly.
Theres a reason they go into fucked combat situations all the time that no marine would ever think about going into. There is no denying that unless you’re literally right smack in the frontline running into a warrior hellchoke with 5 warriors and get stunlocked/movement locked, it’s not a very risky situation.
I don’t think there is a purpose in denying it’s tanky anyway, everybody knows. Ofcourse there’s still ways to equalize it with dps abilities so its like, it’s not as bad as it could be. But it’s definitely still very tanky.
Nowhere did I say synths needed direction click. I am saying, that Synths have a harder time actually hitting and that killing xenos does in fact need a bit of skill to hit your clicks.
It is relavent, because most synths do not take smartpack. Surv synths outside of PMC, do not have a smartpack. It is a survival tool.
“So you hate waffles” argument. I will defend this council, but I will also push for changes if there is mistakes when I mean with ‘i will defend council even its mistakes’, I am saying I will defend individual member’s apart of council. If it is a change they spear-headed.
That isn’t my call.
As council I oversee and try and help the WL where I can. My focus as council has been observations, both on the community and on the WL. This is a thread about changes that are needed with synth. I threw in my two cents.
Mechanical nerfs, will change nothing if culture does not change. if we nerf synths to be basically at the level of com techs and medics, they will still not RP to a level that is on par to other WL’s and prioritize doing their job. it is culture that needs to shift. If surgery is nerfed, we would still be asked to do surgery, because players only care for the TDM and to ‘win’. It is a cultural issue with synths and how ingrained it is in the TDM.
Tl;dr Be the change you want to see. Synths need a change in mindset, and our guidelines should reflect this. Also council isn’t observing every synth every round, report it I had to beg earlier in the discord to report stuff so I’ll do it here -REPORT THINGS.
I never said synths were not tanky - or don’t have a large margin of error. They are! i am just giving the blunt fact that they are not impossible to kill or as strong as a crusher.
You mean like the whitelist should be?
What? In literally one week the entire marine playerbase would know without a doubt not to ask synths for surgery, maybe some people come back from a break and go ‘oh ok’ that’s an insane point what??
There is a prevailing community opinion that the synthetic whitelist is underpoliced and that the majority of whitelist reports are denied, regardless of if the complaints are valid are not (like many are not for COs or Predators) it’s a relevant factor as to why people stopped trying in the wider community, especially those who don’t interact with the forums often. If you could ahelp these issues in round it’d be way easier imo for the median player.
In addition there is absolutely 0 transparency in any outcome if you DM a councillor, you hand them info they go ‘ok cool’ and you will hear nothing. For all you know the councillor could have silently binned your complaint and you have literally no recourse or way to handle it. The other option being the forums where you are glassing your public image within the whitelist to report other synthetics especially if the complaints are ruled negative.
Fundamentally the Council should also self police the whitelist with dialog checks, pretending to be random name pvts and other people trying to interact with synthetics to make sure they’re actually roleplaying. I also understand that it’s a volunteer position, and that not everyone has the time to do that. It shouldn’t be up to the whitelist to police itself, that is for the managing bodies.
Redirecting the issue onto the players of the whitelist with the sentiment of ‘be the change you want to see’ really doesn’t matter when behaviour that is toxic is as it stands allowed by the WL rules. That in of itself is a toxic misdirection like a company blaming employees for bad culture but then the company rules permitting the behaviour.
That’s an insane comparison, you are comparing a synthetic to a t3 xenomorph capable of killing several marines in a minute which cannot be revived. G1-2 synthetics are especially egregious with just how durable they are and good at escaping any threat by holding W.
Furthermore with a crusher you can shoot at them, and they are both slower off weeds and a slow target (unless actively charging), whereas a synthetic will be extremely fast for the entire fight, and only 3 xenomorphs (spitter, prae and queen) have any ranged attack that can harm a synth, all of which if you see you can run faster than them with no way for them to stop you even if they’ve put you 5hp from death.
There absolutely needs to be some sort of nerf to survivability, even if it’s giving synths a version of fracs that can be mended in the synthetic repair stations littered on every map.
I know some people will hate this, but we are fundamentally a game. Systems like Cabal’s suggestion of Synthetics being invisible to xenomorphs when not interacting with marines would be a potential way to balance them being squishier, but synthetics are as they stand:
It’s a little crazy CLF spray was ever allowed and it is kind of surprising to me that the synth team never considered it a WL violation. The host(s) just made a PR to remove its use by a synth (which was just posted when I was considering an even bigger post here).
Nice that it’s happening mechanically at least. Why not earlier and did the council have any hand in that? Is my question.
