Tyrargo Rift - Feedback Thread

[Steelpoint]

@charlie_t24

the map may be too porous, too many paths for marines to go around xeno defenses, needs more chokepoints less open field and maybe close off a few angles of approach? very pretty map, but very marine sided ATM.

This is something I will keep a eye on in future play tests, as I am sure others will point out, to make sure some areas are not too open.

@TheAdamantVeil

probably needs some distinct signs like floor signs on the wall and maybe make up stairs different from down ward stairs spite wise

Hopefully the tests insprite spriters to come forward to help in that regard

@NyoomVoyager

Depending on what has or hasn’t changed since two playtests before this one, ditto above, pathing and open fields were probably the biggest issues, but nothing that a few random buildings/scenes or closing off of some paths can’t fix.

yeah, this second test I did some more work to add more obsticals in certain areas, I think its been a good change, but likely I need to add more.

@DangerRevolution

First Thing: I feel like the LZs are just too large. They’re large enough that, if you try anchor your barricades against natural features then you have long barricade lines that are very thin. However if you try make smaller barricade lines (and therefore more), they’re too tight and the FOB ends up too small? As a result, you give up those natural features for cover for Xenos.

I am not too concerend due to the imminent FOB rework which will render this a moot point. But, I can address these issues still.

@EmpressEri

Army troopers should be balanced more around ERT level like the UPP/PMC surv inserts

I admit I might not be the best person for survivor balance. In my mind the US Army guys are very well armed and armoured by surv standards, being pretty much the most consistently powerful spawn I feel aside from maybe a lucky PMC spawn. The RNG ammo and medical supplies is meant to be a constraining point, but if its too much I can look in to other ways.

I’d love the idea of some kind of alt system like the Army guys having to defend a FOB location, but this might be a complex code system that needs someone else to address.

@kryth

My take is that the underground on the outskirts of the city needs more love, maybe its just the lack of xenos playing around it due to round ending but they need more attention, maybe put tunnels on them in roundstart

Will do.

[eMiiX]

My two cents, the map feels very huge due to the amount of paths and ways to get lost, and multi-z doesn’t help it at all.

Love the aesthetic and the ambience, but nothing is clear to navigate, we spend more time “finding” the remaining xenos than actually playing the map due to how many paths and places to hide.

The buildings all look very indistinguishable specially in the dark as marines, many of them don’t even use their respective doors and just use a default black door

[trollologist1]

I didn’t get a ton of time to actually play on the map (huge thanks to whoever let me hop in and saved me — you’re a real MVP), so I can’t go super in-depth on gameplay balance or flow. But from what I did experience, and from what I’ve heard from others, this map is genuinely excellent — easily a 9/10 or even 10/10 in my book.

I actually laughed when I died to a mine while trying to save another Marine… who also died to the same mines… right outside of FOB and we perma’d. We both laughed it off and felt it was funny. Stuff like that really sells the atmosphere. The lighting, ambient noises, and environmental hazards give it this gritty, oppressive feel that’s perfect. It’s unforgiving in a way that reminds me why I love the snow maps so much. (Bit of a tangent: I still think Ice is peak and should’ve stayed, while Shivas and that other slop map feel kind of mid in comparison and should’ve been done away with — just my two, off-topic cents.)

The distant gunfire and explosions in the background are such a great touch. It also adds to the atmosphere and reminds me of this S.T.A.L.K.E.R. server I used to play on with the tone it went with. I’m absolutely here for it.

As for the chokepoints, I’m indifferent to them. Yeah, they slow things down and make progress harder, but they also lead to longer, more memorable fights or instant wipes from either getting pincered or flanked. Forces Marines to lean on CAS (if the chokepoint is above ground), or very risky plays/battles of attrition when underground, or attempting to do a pincer attack as your counter attack if the Xenos make a decent/good offensive push. Though I’m sure there’s plenty of different ways/strats that could be used in a variety of situations. It also makes Xenos have to coordinate with boilers and well-planned screeches to push through. It adds a tactical layer that I think both sides can appreciate.

I’ve also heard the survivor gameplay is more engaging than FORECON, though I can’t say that with certainty as I didn’t experience or witness it myself. However, I did see a ton of US Army soldiers in Alpha’s spot, so I’m not sure what that exactly meant — or if Alpha are deployed directly at round-start. Might’ve just been me overlooking something, and maybe they just had similar coloring. If that is the case, their color on the monitor should probably be tweaked to avoid confusion. Regardless, I think the survivor elements add more flavor to the round-start, at least from what I’ve heard.
Feedback from both Marines and Xenos has seemed overwhelmingly positive, and I’m definitely looking forward to reading more once I finish typing this wall of text.

All in all, this map gives me a lot of hope. It feels like it takes a bunch of elements the good maps got right and blends them into something new that feels unique — from gameplay potential to RP opportunities and just raw vibe.

Honestly, I’d love to see this map swapped in for Shivas or Hybrisa, even temporarily. Even just having a round-start or late-join disclaimer telling players that it’s a WIP/Beta and linking this thread could go a long way toward collecting more feedback. I know the usual answer is “when you code it,” but hey — just throwing the idea out there.

P.S. I do think the chokepoints may need some reworking if this map ends up being used for HvH events. Hard chokes can become an extreme headache in HvH even more so than in HvX. Also, I personally disagree with the current LZ criticism. One of the things Ice did really well was having large, open areas that encouraged Command to collaborate closely with Intel and Requisitions to build a proper FOB — which was often prone to hive piles, backliner probe attacks, or their general attempts to exhaust Marine resources or just out of spite. From intel being processed for req budget boosts, to Req needing to be more conservative with their spending, that kind of interconnectedness added depth and I think this map could absolutely lean into that more.

[victoriousv]

The map feels a lot softer in terms of its destructibility than others. This wouldn’t be a bad thing, but it increases the power of marine orbital bombardments a fair amount.

[DukeofCagliostro (Archibald V. Cartwright)]

Thank you for making this map. It looks amazing and the lore is great.

[cuberound]

to the topic of climb balance as you were all good boys and have not brought it up, I did fix the issue with wall boosting and it should work now, also the queen falling to her death was not compelatly her fault as safeclimb was not tested with… ledges of all the cursed stuff, right now you first bump into the eldge before otehr stuff can trigger and leap over the ledge to your death. fall stun numbers are prop gona go down and I might put in some slow to compensate it, still want big xenos to get decent stun from falling as upper levels are suppsoed to be risky in that way for them

[detectivegoogle]

@Steelpoint

restore their power to an ‘APC’

“The underground could be flooded if the hosts restore power to the area” is fine.

[Steelpoint]

I released a video of my observer perspective of the most recent test, should be a bit useful:

@trollologist1

P.S. I do think the chokepoints may need some reworking if this map ends up being used for HvH events. Hard chokes can become an extreme headache in HvH even more so than in HvX. Also, I personally disagree with the current LZ criticism. One of the things Ice did really well was having large, open areas that encouraged Command to collaborate closely with Intel and Requisitions to build a proper FOB — which was often prone to hive piles, backliner probe attacks, or their general attempts to exhaust Marine resources or just out of spite. From intel being processed for req budget boosts, to Req needing to be more conservative with their spending, that kind of interconnectedness added depth and I think this map could absolutely lean into that more.

I do feel the FOBs are fine, its just teething issues with Marines needing to adjust, the south LZ is far more “open” than the north LZ but this is compensated by it being much harder for xenos to get as its much further from hive locations. Chokepoint issues can be addressed with nightmare inserts for HvH in the future.

[BasilHerb (Samson Jack)]

Man, this map easily looks like the most unique and interesting one to date. I can’t wait to play it. I just wished the playtests wouldn’t be at 4 in the morning

On an unrelated note, the admin PM noises in the video scared the absolute living shit out of me

[Steelpoint]

The trials of being a staff. To be fair, there were far more ahelps this round than normal, due to this being a new map.

Sadly I don’t control TM times, hopefully once the PvE Tacmap PR is merged, we might be able to get the map TMed for longer than 1 round

[Addict64]

The south LZ treeline has fences along it. When these fences are destroyed/removed, you can pass through the trees behind them which completely obscures sprites. Those trees should probably have collision so you cant go from the far west straight up to the dropship while hidden completely.

[Lomhow1234 (Lomhow)]

I played Tyrago the very first time Steelpoint ran it. Then again another time. And again today. I think it’s an awesome map with tons of flavor. I think the multiz is really good. I LOVE the sewer sections, so fucking cool. Just over all an awesome addition to the game.

[IamDood (Dood)]

Really love how the map looks, and how you ambiently lit the sewer areas with mushrooms, nice touch!

I will preface in saying that it’s certainly partly due to lack of map knowledge, but to me, it seems as though a large part of the intel found are in area’s the xeno’s make their colony/the relative furthest back area, and thus, are only attainable once (if) the marine’s have basically already won and killed most if not all the xenos. I would move juuuuust a few more intel spawns on the western half of the map, wherever there are US army structures, and such.

Also, I really like the atmosphere the thick brush tree lines give. No more blocky impassible, unbreakable walls that also break muh immersion. They look really good, and the overall atmosphere of the map is fantastic.

[kooarbiter]

let comtechs repurpose destroyed vehicles into siege towers so marines can safely assault ledges

[Erawh (Erawh (GOD))]

There are a few technical issues with this map, seems to be mentioned previously but noteworthy are the tree sprites often being able to completely obscure you, and weird hitboxes for some stuff. Probably some multi-z issues too but not relevant for the map specifically.

With that said this map i feel is trying too many different things, and not really succeeding in any of them.
The trenches with the survs and the AI drones is cool, but the whole west side of the map is WAAAAAY to open for any realistic assault, marines will run and gun and basically abandon it and xenos will have very little to launch their attack into an FOB without good structures.

The eastern side of the map is the main place where xenos will want to setup the hive, multi tiered buildings is reasonable however with how large the spaces on the roads are, together with alot of random clutter like sandbags and broken cars which dont break sightlines it makes any holds difficult, and gives significant ways for the marines to flank.

In the last two games ive played on this map, both going relatively long, the marines have cleared the F entrence, gotten onto the main road and just ran it down straight into the mall/museum into the hive front door. holding the streets gets very difficult, and with coordinated airsupport and OBs marines have a very easy time rushing.

All in all this map feels like its two maps awkwardly stuck together, the trenches with an underground section but very open topside would be a cool map if it was all of, the eastern side instead plays like hybrisa but worse.

Look at the maps that get selected in rotation, solaris, LV, 522, even sorokyne to an extent, they are all built with structures/caves to fight in, and smaller open spaces between them, its fine to challenge one or two of these “rules” of mapmaking sure, gimmics are cool but this kinda tries too many of them at once and imo comes up a bit short, xenos should be have options in where to hive, and marines should have flanking options, not just a complete abandon of half the map in pracice for the “obvious” place where the xenos will be.

Setting up something like more structures around the central part of the map might help, as would opening the southern parts, again with some building/structure there to hold as xenos for the flank would help alot IMO.

PS. Please make the random fire barrels something that xenos can put out with a few swipes, or make them breakable

[BasilHerb (Samson Jack)]

Yeah imo the biggest issue is sightlines

It’s incredibly open up top, there ought to be a lot more cover for xenos (hopefully ones that also block line of sight). I think one guy said sieging FOB reminded them of whiskey outpost, and honestly it does seem pretty apt.

Hopefully it’ll also make attacking hive via. sewers and flooding filt more valuable. If marines decide it’s better to use the relatively open sewers instead of a more cluttered and chokey ground-floor, xenos will focus more on the sewers and thus make filtration more fought-over. I’d personally find it super cool if intense skirmishes over the filtration controls, followed by xenos conducting a grand napoleonic retreat to the hive above ground, as the (metaphorical) flood of marines advance along with the (quite literal) flood of water became the norm for this map. Trijent has filt too, but it doesn’t feel as cool.

Obviously all assumptions though, maybe marines will just end up not caring whatsoever and push the hellchoke for the 78th time as per usual

[amazingdragons]

Very fun map, best implementation of multi-z to date IMO. I agree with what people are saying about sightlines, making the map a little easier to defend would be nice for xenos.

I also think while the map is beautiful to look at, it has a similar problem to soro where it’s very difficult to identify areas by looking at them. Even with many more hours on this map I think I’d struggle to tell where someone is by observing them, which is really annoying. Subtle things like colour coding certain buildings, changing the shade of the ground in different areas, or replacing obstacles could help with this. I also think it will get somewhat better with time as we get used to the map, but visual aids would still definitely help.

Again though I REALLY love how multi-z is implemented, with sensible and easily distinguishable upper and lower levels, and the sewer flooding mechanic is awesome. Visually and thematically the map is awesome, and it makes a MUCH better use of survs than any other map aside from maybe chance’s claim.

[runner]

This exactly. Going to further reinforce that the western areas NEED more cover especially around the FOBs. With how open it is now it is basically impossible to build any sort of good FOB-- let alone getting men on every single entrance. There’s not much to stop a queen from just running into the FOB and hijacking the alamo.

[cuberound]

yes color coding the buildings would help a ton, it happend to me that I missjudged my location by two buildings over as when you are inside they are not that easy to tell apart at first glance

[Arbs (The real Alan Jones maybe? Perhaps?)]

The map is very nicely made in my opinion. It has a lot of novel features being introduced, is quite modern in comparison to older maps and fits much more into a large war aesthetic.

The best part I also would like to praise is the good use of Multi-Z being used for underground passages that leave open the possibility for moving behind the lines from underground as well.

This is by all means not a small map and it is in my opinion intended for higher pop hours.

Additionally it features a different survivor experience for the last remaining UA Army squad, which is unique in the sense it is decently armed and armor. The best tip for which is to remain mobile.

The two LZs are at Firebase charlie and the other at the runway. I find LZ at the runway to be much more in the open by comparison, where as firebase charlie has some more defenses by default, making it an easier FOB to build defenses for.

Other than that, for what has been seen in the rounds is that the western side is more marine favored where as the more decisive combat for the round will happen on the eastern side in the town area. That is the hive area.

I believe that over time smaller details for improvement will pop up, and people will come up with creative ways of going about the map. However from the limited rounds that I have been part of, I have yet to see how the deeper areas of the hive underground could be pushed if the advance in the eastern part of the town is a success.

Additionally the map could greatly benefit from further development of the Multi-Z system.

Topics such as interaction between layers in terms of effectively assaulting an underground hive in a different Z-Level (which brings PTSD from the old ice map of death elevators and ladder traps), interaction of OBs/CAS/Mortar among different Z-Levels and the likes.