Ideally, there could be a mechanic to allow the UPP (or any other military survivor like PMCs or Forecon) to be extracted from the field, perhaps they can activate a beacon at the alternative LZ after 30 minutes, or a shuttle can dock with the Almayer to peacefully extract the UPP. The reward for this could be allowing extracted players to be returned to the lobby to rejoin as a Marine.
Agreed, but there should still be some rule or something preventing MPs from POW permabrigging them for existing (for UPP, CLF should of course still get permaed). On the extraction mechanic, maybe make it so that non-military survs have some WY or USCMC shuttle for interrogation or for some other not complety unrealistic reason to allow other survivors to rejoin after surviving as well? Would be pretty unfair if the funny military survs can just rejoin as marine after surviving and the non-military ones would have to either be unga but with shitty gear or observer-main.
Prisoner of what war? MPs already can’t arrest random UPP guys.
You are rehashing Marine Law that already exists.
What is being argued here effectively is the nebulous grey area that exists when a UPP member doesn’t want their guns removed despite going shipside or is arrested/detained for some other reason.
The latter is rare but occasionally you also get survs who treat it as carte blanche to go on murder sprees. Those people are the literal reason for Survivors having more clearly defined rules on who is hostile from the start and who is not. It’s not a role really meant to change the course of rounds through sheer kills or because of some (barely) justified hostile takeover CIC after a massive gunfight and random bombings shipside.
Friendly Survs virtually always stay neutral or friendly - with rare exceptions that are tied to the general rules on escalation tbh. Hostile survs stay hostile.
CLF do have that potential, honestly, but again… you can see that their own ruleset is handled appropriately as a result. EG: Marines can literally kill them on sight and vice versa. Negotiation and roleplay is a prerogative. Not a requirement. Doesn’t mean RP doesn’t happen with them - just that they are angled towards being handled like true hostile survivors.
At the end of the day, Survivor is a role with a Very Hard difficulty and multiple different roleplay opportunities. It might mean early combat and lots of it, but it also ties into higher amounts of
roleplay per round than say…a Squad Marine. If you can’t handle that, it is on you.
Something for this in SOP already kinda exists, “Third-Party Military or Paramilitary forces may be allowed to keep their weaponry, provided their presence is beneficial to the operation.” but it does seem very up for interpretation by whoever’s there, you could argue that just telling command about what happened groundside could be “beneficial to the operation”.
Yes I knew about that.
Up for interpretation means it’s up to Command on a subjective basis. Not a catch all since this entire discussion is literally about the kind of question like: “But what if my RP means I’m not really friendly - even if I am technically a ““Friendly”” Survivor”.
If “Friendly” UPP go up shipside and have been acting all uncooperative and generally antagonistic - even if not outright hostile - yeah a CO, XO or aCO is going to be more hesitant to allow them to keep their weaponry. Both sides are simply following RP there.
What I’ve previously mentioned, see past comment, on solutions for this situation is simple and makes escalation to lethal entirely unnecessary.
If we really want to rule lawyer… note that the wording of that SOP is not that " “Third-Party Military or Paramilitary forces keep their weaponry, provided their presence is beneficial to the operation.. It is “Third-Party Military or Paramilitary forces may be allowed to keep their weaponry, provided their presence is beneficial to the operation.**
It is permission. Not a right.
Whether it is explicit or implicit depends on the CO/XO/aCO active.
If you commit to a level of RP that makes Command feel you (PMC or UPP Survs) are a security risk by having guns shipside - don’t be surprised if you have to give them up when you remain shipside.
Using this unique situation as an excuse to start hostilities while playing nominally “neutral” or “friendly” survivors is going to get noticed and create issues for both the role and yourself, moderation wise.
Agreed that it is a privilege to retain one’s weapon until one’s status has been established with the CO/XO. Even the W-Y goons should surrender their offensive capabilities unless otherwise sanctioned by the CO/XO. Royce boys showing up to take chem data isn’t outright beneficial to the operation.
its beneficial to the operation because if they comply they dont get fuckin shot out of the sky
We were non hostile but we spent the entirety RPing and didn’t get to help much, the main issue came when the ERT team to retrieve us was sent they both had no IFF so the turrets at fuel pumps shredded them, they took this as a blanket to start executing marines. IFF needs reworked for friendly ERTS, maybe add something for survs that if they get the sensor tower or comms towers fully fixed from a roundstart broken state they can ask for IFF.
nice try capitalist pig
iirc, arent the UPP and UA at like, a cold war? Like, not actually at war
Correct. The reputation of the UPP being hostile stems from the UPP being a hostile ERT spawn, it was only recently that it was made a 50/50 chance for them to be hostile or friendly.
Also the UPP are the only in-universe faction of comparable strength to the USCM ergo they are typically used as the OpFor for HvH events.
The thing people forget about the hostile UPP forces are that they are clearly not normal troops as UPP dispatch calls them a “strike team” and are usually commandos therefore making it likely these are probably some sort of GRU/KGB type spetsnaz team and not the standard troops that spawn on trijent and such.
Pretty sure the opfor events are in the future, when the UPP is in direct combat with the UA.
ATM it’s just, tensions. Like moments of the US and Russian forces meeting in Syria, they don’t fight they’re just…there
I got a feeling this guy REALLY doesn’t like capitalism