The rule itself and it’s wording is fine, it prevents the ship from just devolving into complete chaos, because people can’t just commit murder over minor incidents, like getting cut in the req line or having their attachments stolen.
I also like that it specifies that you can lethaly harm someone while under “Exceptional Circumstances”, like: If some dent-head starts disarm spamming you in the middle of combat, or if you are fighting with the other marines to try and get a spot in the escape pod.
Problem is, sometimes the admins makes utterly dogshit rulings when it comes to IE.
Like for example; i once played as a cannibal MT and got caught stealing corpses from the morgue. The CMP rightfully thought that i was mental. So he reasonably went into my kitchen with his gun out, and told me that i was under arrest. During this confrontation, i too had a gun, so like any reasonable human being who doesnt want to get arrested, i shot back, and… promptly lost the gunfight. That should’ve been it, but for some stupid reason, i got slapped with a 3 day ban for that, like WTF was i supposed to do? Slap him around first to “escalate” the fight? Thats completely stupid and unrealistic, wich is the complete opposite of what the RP rules are supposed to accomplish. Now admins might argue that “Oh you should’ve just ran away.” MY BROTHER IN CHRIST, HE HAS A GUN, HE CAN JUST SHOOT ME, I’M FIGHTING FOR MY LIFE HERE.
Another thing that i find bullshit, is that even when the MPs are chasing you for a capital crime like sedition, and even if the CO is calling for your head on a spike. You still can’t shoot them to death due to IE rules, when i think its very reasonable to do so. Think about it, you are being chased by a bunch of goons and if you get captured by them, you will get jailed then killed. Is that not reason enough to lethal them? Is that not an “Exceptional Circumstance?”
The rule enforcement is weird on it. I’ve seen MT do what you did and not get banned (shooting numerous MP for chasing them), I’ve also seen an MT be a terrorist two rounds in a row for no reason. The enforcement is not standardized by any means as so much is left up to the discretion of admins.
It’s marines vs xenos not marines vs marines. Bottom
Line it’s case by case because we never wanted to deal with “I punched a marine once and he shot me to perma death and ruined my round wah” ahelps
Personally I think you should be able to shoot back against MPs/CO if you’re clearly going to be executed. From what I’ve heard you have to wait for them to shoot first but at that point it’s already too late. If you do something stupid during briefing and the CO pulls out his gun and runs towards you we all know what the CO is about to do, and the victim should be able to preemptively shoot in self defense.
So, the MP having a gun out during an arrests is a reason to gun them down, on a server where it is a common joke to point live firearms at the police which is just walking around? Anyways, being able to gun down MPs about to execute you may cause players considering themselves robust to commit capital crimes and then go on a holy quest to shoot all MPs aboard to perma. I don’t think there are many execution-worthy crimes you should commit without admin permission anyways, and if you are asking already, just let the admin print you a ticket to shoot MPs too.
I got noted for IE for shooting a marine who was stabbing other marines intentionally which seems super silly like oh your getting stabbed? Hold up let me put away my gun and take out my boot knife because yeah that makes sense
I don’t believe there is any way to reconcile the discrepancies between “improper escalation” and “exceptional circumstances” in a way that doesn’t have events examined on a case-by-case basis. The reality is that even in the real world people are going to have differing opinions on when lethal force is permissible, and cases are constantly brought before legal professionals to critically examine such events. We don’t have the luxury of having strenuous, precedent-based case law, and thus the way things must be handled is through admin-discretion and ban-appeals.
Problem is this means that in practice “exceptional circumstances” might as well not be a thing because admins can punish you anyway and if you try to staff report it it will 100% be denied because the admin was just using their own judgement. If the “exceptional circumstances” clause can never actually protect you then it’s really just a noob trap to trick people into getting punished by admins, thinking that they’re safe when they’re not. Essentially the problem is it’s all down to admin judgement but there is absolutely nothing you can do if an admin has terrible judgement (or malicious intent). And god knows a lot of staff on this server have terrible judgement, so I do not feel safe killing someone even in situations that are CLEARLY exceptional circumstances.
Also my understanding is that ban appeals are only for if you’re admitting that what you did was wrong and are apologizing and asking for a second chance. I don’t think you can do a ban appeal only to say “I wasn’t in the wrong, the staff member banned me wrongly”. Pretty sure your appeal will just be denied, and you’ll be told you should have made a staff report instead (which will 100% be denied for the reason I stated earlier).
It’s not that you don’t have the luxury of that, it’s that you don’t want that. If a player were to bring up evidence of prior precedent in their staff report it will be completely ignored because staff do not care about being consistent with prior rulings. I already had this confirmed to me in a policy feedback thread I made a while ago so you can’t even deny it.
Rule 10 is always going to be subjective. But the important thing is if /you/ have an IC justification which you can sell to the admin, then it’s not IE.
There needs to be a genuine risk to your life or a situation in which a real life marine would turn to shoot his buddies. Now you can demonstrate that the old fashion way with fist knife gun or with rp, but you still need to justify it.
At the end of the day though, if you feel like it’s been a harsh call, IE is a judgement call and you can appeal it with the intent of clarification (and not just getting the staffer yelled at).
I do agree, however i would say that some mods seem to regard IE as a way to crack down on LRP. Your anecdote is actually super illustrative there, instead of doing anything about being a super lrp MT they use “improper escalation” as a reason to ban.
This is pretty bad rules enforcement, it doesn’t address the actual reason, you, as a mod are removing this person from the server, either temporarily or permanently. It gives little room for that person to improve their behaviour or realize what they actually did wrong.
I can’t prove this is what some mods are doing, but recreationally reading ban appeals and staff reports here plus some personal interactions with staff in game has given me this interpretation.
Marine law also classifies any “blade” as a deadly weapon. No one should be punished for killing an attacker wielding a blade who is actively harming others.
To threaten or use physical force against someone with ill intent and with a lethal weapon such as a sidearm, blade, or rifle but not attempting to murder them.