alexguinea - Player Report: Emiix Aegadan, Rule 11: Marine Law, Mutinies

[alexguinea]

alexguinea - Player Report: Emiix Aegadan, Rule 11: Marine Law, Mutinies

What’s your BYOND key?

alexguinea

Round ID:

19759

Your character name:

Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain

Accused BYOND key:

key was not given by staff

Accused character name:

Emiix Aegadan

What rule(s) were broken?:

Rule 11: Marine Law, Mutinies

Description of the incident:

After I got onto the ERT shuttle with a marine that followed me because he wanted to join w-y, was his own choice, the MPs followed him inside the shuttle. I then soon said , “launch” and then a few seconds later I did myself, my hope was that they would leave because the shuttle was taking off. The MPs did not get off but the marine that followed me did. I then soon ordered my goons to arrest the MPs for trespassing, they did not do it until one did after I left the shuttle when we landed. I then faxed something at the ERT shuttle and was then flashbanged and cuffed. When I was taken to brig my charges had not been stated and it seemed like it was a solid minute before the CMP told the MW the charges. Now when I asked staff they said it was the CMP, emiix, but they were unsure. The charges were Subterfuge and Illegal Confinement. Now the Illegal Confinement part kinda makes sense but that depends on the RP interpretation of it. As the MPs were trespassing and did not leave even when the marine they were chasing left. Now the charge of Subterfuge makes no sense as the definition is, “Carrying out objectives or being tied to material that describe planned actions that go against the USCM. Strong proof is required that the individual is working against USCM.” Now one deserting marine and MPs just making a bad call does not sound like being a threat to the whole of the USCM. Now I Believe that this these are charges that are improper, not the right ones, and charged in bad faith.

Evidence:

Logs

[Pablo_Excavator]

I was one of the MPs that was aboard the ship, the marine in question was part of forecon. To my information a marine can not sign a contract for whiteout and publicy announce that he is leaving the USCM. His claim was that “My contract expired a week ago” Which we as the MP’s highly doubted.

Therefore when he boarded the shuttle, we followed him as that corresponds to the desertion charge. We followed the marine up the shuttle to bring him back, however as the shuttle start taking off we buckled onto the chairs and the marine ran away. Afterwhich we wanted to head back down but the CL ordered the detainment of us.

I was the first to get stunned by a goon. Afterwhich I tase him then my buddy shoots him with a sandbag I believe he used sandbags bullets stunning me and the goon. After which I recover from the stun and most of the goons are already arrested ( Litterally usmc 1 WY 0 ). We bring the goon team along with CL back shipside.

The CL is brought with us as he was the one who ordered the arrest. The CMP ordered the goon team to be left alone and made sure to return to the station after which they did. Later on we were deciding on what charge to give the CL. After all, the law book doesn’t magically intergrade into your head just by rolling MP.

The CL is then arrested for Illegal Confinement and something else. Personally I believe all procedures were followed. A marine should be discharged at the HQ not on his own choice, for one we don’t even know his contract ended without actual proof.

[alexguinea]

now I kinda get the illegal confinement. but for the Subterfuge charge does not make sense as why would aiding a marine in desertion be a action against the whole of the USCM? I feel the charge should have been aiding, and then add desertion as when doing a aiding charge you also slap on their charge and also I think it was blue, but a MP flashbanged me when I did not resist at all and was clearly faxing something, even when it was counting down I just sat there so that could be excessive force. And before that a MP went near me before I locked the door to the hanger with a gun in his hands but did not shoot or arrest me, he went back in.

[eMiiX]

I was the CMP that round, I was not part of the ship shenanigans when the fight broke out or whatever.

At that point into the round, the goons were supposed to leave, But the XO still wanted to negotiate with them having them deployed to help the OP. So XO went downstairs to stop them as they were leaving, i followed, but ship was not there anymore. So we assumed they left. I even asked on MP channel if they all left, Dont got much of an answer, Then saw on the monitor MP’s were ON the ship, And heard some stuff, so went south to check. Found the ship docked in the south pod, Got some quick explanation from the MP’s that participated in the struggle, And ordered the CL to be arrested, And to let the goons leave, as they were supposed to, since i was told the CL was ordering, or trying to order the goons to detain the MP’s and take a marine with them.

Was a bit of a chaotic round with multiple stuff happening at once.
So when i got back to brig after making sure the goons leave, i asked the MP’s to explain properly, what happened. So i was told they were trying to contract or take a marine with them, launching the ship, attempting to prevent the MP’s from recovering said marine, or even kidnapping them, and ordering the goons to act against the MP’s, from what i heard, detaining them. They brought up the charges, and we all agree they fit in the category, wich i did aswell.

The subterfurge charge, reads as: Carrying out objectives or being tied to material that describe planned actions that go against the USCM. Strong proof is required that the individual is working against USCM.

Trying to kidnap marines or get them to desert, launching the ship to prevent the MP’s to do their duty or even kidnap them, ordering the goons to detain the MP’s and raising hostilities. We pretty much all agreed are Carrying out objectives against the USCM.

[alexguinea]

@eMiiX

We pretty much all agreed are Carrying out objectives against the USCM.

Just because you all agreed does not make it a good charge. For example any researchers taking a small contract with W-Y would that be subterfuge? just because they are doing something that could be considered treason does not mean intent or actual real threat to the USCM as a whole.

[Mensla]

I was the military warden that round, the charges were my ideas. The CMP was ancillary in this situation.

My ckey is Mensla and my player name is Mark Levine.

Here are the reasons for the charges that I suggested to the CMP:

Illegal confinement: You attempted to kidnap us by screaming at the chem goons numerous times to “DETAIN THEM”. You also were yelling “LAUNCH” numerous times and you then launched the ship a few seconds later.

Subterfuge: You were allowing a marine to desert with you all and trying to cover for him by saying, “He’s with us.” You also attempted to have three officers arrested and instead of just letting us go back, you wanted to start trouble. As mentioned above, you also tried to get the chem goons to arrest us.

why would aiding a marine in desertion be a action against the whole of the USCM

Because trying to take away from the marine fighting force is eroding the USCM’s strength. If you are trying to get people to desert then you are clearly acting against USCM interests for your own personal gain. A marine deserting on his own would never get you in trouble but you defended them, which is why you earned your subterfuge charge.

When I was taken to brig my charges had not been stated

As step 4 of arrest procedure states:

Inform the Suspect of his Charges before the brig timer starts.

MP are under no obligation to immediately tell you your charges. That is why I chose not to say anything in regards to them until they had been confirmed.

[eMiiX]

Thats a different situation example. You were ordering the goons to do things against the USCM, and attempt to get the MP’s kidnapped and detained, and god knows what else, if they didn’t manage to defuse the situation, and that besides the marine desertion, wich as Mensla just comment, its againast USCM interest, you are taking active marines out of the operation for your own purposes.

[NessiePendragon]

Related logs will be posted in an hour!

[NessiePendragon]

Hey there! Please feel free contact me on Discord if there is anything missing or wrong!

Emiix Aegadan - EMiiX - Chief MP
Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain - AlexGuinea - Corporate Liaison
Military Polices
Chem Team

Warden Mark Levine and MPs enters the W-Y shuttle. CL orders the chem team to arrest the MPs due to trespassing to their shuttle.

Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: He is with us. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Where are yo- (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Military Polices [1]: No he is not. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [WY]: He is with us. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Where are you going? (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [WY]: LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: No it did not. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: GET IN. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
EMOTE: Military Polices/ : stares
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: We’re going with the goons, sorry. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [Command]: I believe they are in the process of leaving. (CKEY: EMiiX) (JOB: Chief MP)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: DETAIN. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Excuse you? (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: They are tresspassing. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Well somone wanted to come with. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Touch me and you’re getting it. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: And they tried to steal the shuttle. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison
SAY: Military Polices [1]: We will be returning. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Do not touch us. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: GET THEM. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: With me. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
EMOTE: Military Polices/ : sighs

Seconds after CL's order; chem team starts the escalation by shoving one of the MPs, escalation follows the non-lethals, and finally, MP Marek Jackson escalates it to lethals and shoots the chem team.

ATTACK: /(Chem Team) disarmed /(Military Polices) in Shuttle (9,68,1).
ATTACK: /(Chem Team) stunned /(Military Polices) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Chem Team) stunned /(Military Polices) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with a taser bolt in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with a taser bolt in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Chem Team) stunned /(Military Polices) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with an additional buckshot in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) primed a grenade (flashbang) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Chem Team) stunned /(Military Polices) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with a buckshot shell in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Military Polices) with an additional buckshot in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Military Polices) with an additional buckshot in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with an additional buckshot in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with an additional buckshot in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with an additional buckshot in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with a buckshot shell in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) attempted to handcuff /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) grabbed /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) attempted to handcuff /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) attempted to handcuff /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) grabbed /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) shot /(Chem Team) with a taser bolt in Shuttle x4
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) attempted to handcuff /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) grabbed /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) stunned /(Chem Team) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) stunned /(Chem Team) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle

After the shuttle docks to ERT station, Warden Mark Levine arrests the CL after throwing a flashbang.

SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [WY]: All good? (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Arrest the liaison. (CKEY: ) ()
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) primed a grenade (flashbang) in ERT Station
SAY: Military Polices [1]: You are under arrest, do not resist. (CKEY: ) ()
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) attempted to handcuff AlexGuinea/(Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain) in ERT Station
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) grabbed AlexGuinea/(Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain) in ERT Station

During the way back to Almayer.

SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [WY]: Patent was sent. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [WY]: They know now. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Send us back. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Got the patent send via fax. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Coming back. (CKEY: ) ()
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Also MW.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Where are we docking?
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Why are you out of brig?
SAY: Military Polices [1]: We have no prisoners.
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) used the flash to flash /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
/(Military Polices) grabbed AlexGuinea/(Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) used the flash to flash /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) used the flash to flash /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) used the flash to flash /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) used the flash to flash /(Chem Team) in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) stunned /(Chem Team) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) stunned /(Chem Team) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Alright…
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Settle down.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Stop.

Shuttle docks to Almayer, CMP Emiix questions the MPs.

SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: What is going on now.
SAY: Chem Team [WY]: They trespassed into our company location, attacked and cuffed us all outside their brig (JOB: WY Research Consultant)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Decided to stun us
SAY: Chem Team [1]: Man I’m just wondering what I did
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) stunned /(Chem Team) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ATTACK: /(Military Polices) stunned /(Chem Team) with the the stunbaton in Shuttle
ADMIN: /(Chem Team) stuttered while saying: “That tried to get you off from their dock.”
SAY: Military Polices [1]: He started batonning an MP.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Trying to arrest us.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: The liaison was also saying to detain us.
EMOTE: Emiix Aegadan /EMiiX : sigh
ADMIN: /(Chem Team) stuttered while saying: “You were tresspassing at our dock.”
SAY: Military Polices [1]: We had a marine trying to desert.
SAY: Chem Team [1]: You were out of bounds, WHY YOU WENT IN THE SHUTTLE
SAY: Chem Team [1]: And I w-w-was ordered t-to.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: We all came aboard to detain him, the liaison punched the shuttle.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: CL launched the shuttle.
SAY: Chem Team [1]: And l-l-let me get my medical help already.
SAY: Chem Team [1]: Blame it all in the deserter
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Well, arrest the Liaison then, and send this guys off.
SAY: Chem Team [1]: Now stop arresting my goons
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Then the liaison orders the goons to arrest us for trespassing.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Will do.
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: I want them off the ship.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Release them all.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Well. (CKEY: AlexGuinea)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: My ID. (CKEY: AlexGuinea)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: My ID. (CKEY: AlexGuinea)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Dude. (CKEY: AlexGuinea
SAY: Chem Team [1]: My cuffs (JOB: WY Research Consultant)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: This one, was the first to stun us
SAY: Chem Team [1]: No, I was not. (JOB: WY Corporate Security)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: And he said release. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: You got my ID? (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: I advise you to not return. Take your squad, and leave.

Warden Mark Levine brings the CL to Brig. Warden asks the charges multiple times on radio, but the CMP is busy with dealing a threat shipside. After a while, CMP arrives to Brig. Warden tells what happened and then they both discuss the charges. Finally, CMP Emiix authorizes to charge the CL with Illegal Confinement and Subterfuge.

SAY: Military Polices [MP]: So the liaison launched the shuttle with all of us on board then tried to have us arrested.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: He also kept saying that the marine was “with us”.
OOC: (LOCAL) Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain/AlexGuinea : can I get clarification on what exactly it is because it seems like you could tell me more
OOC: (LOCAL) Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain/AlexGuinea : that was for staff
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [MP]: Warden, process the CL accordingly. And keep the docking pads monitored.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Affirm, I’m just not sure what charges would be best for such acts…
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Subterfuge?
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [MP]: One second.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Affirm.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: He was trying to have us arrested and claiming a marine was working for them now.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: And of course, launched the shuttle.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Well he wanted to come. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: I said sure. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: No contract. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: And why is that?
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Hm?
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: No nothing. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: He just wanted to desert.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Great to hear.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Okay… what charges.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: I don’t want to keep him waiting.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Not sufrage because it was one marine and it was his choice. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: And he left before it launched. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: You attempted to have us all arrested and failed.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Miserably.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Because you stayed on. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: CMP - please, what charges.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Even when the marine left. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: He did leave. (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Yes, because my other officers weren’t going to get off in time.
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [MP]: Coming up sorry, had someone eat a monkey cube.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: Alright.
SAY: Military Polices [MP]: I’m thinking illegal confinement and subterfuge.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: So you, a MW, who is supossed to stay in brig went off the fucking ship? (CKEY: AlexGuinea) (JOB: Corporate Liaison)
SAY: Military Polices [1]: I am going to make sure my officers return safely.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Greetings.
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Describe exactly how it went down.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: He launched the ship, kept saying a USCM marine was “with us”.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: And when all of us were aboard, he ordered the goons to apprehend us.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Also.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: I even left the ship.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: To go fax the patent.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Again, I believe charges of subterfuge and IC shall work.
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Did the CL attacked any of you?
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Or just order the rest?
SAY: Military Polices [1]: No, but one goon tried to detain an officer.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: I then flashed everyone and zip-tied all of the goons and the liaison.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: Well I was faxing the patent.
SAY: Emiix Aegadan [1]: Yeah, Subterfurge, illegal confinment.
EMOTE: Military Polices/ : nods
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Simon, you are under arrest for subterfuge and IC.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: You have the right to appeal to the CO, the aCO, whatever officer they delegate, or via fax.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: I shall terminate his ID.
ADMIN: /(Military Polices) jailed Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain for Illegal Confinement, Subterfuge.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: You will be issued a pistol with one round upon discharge to the planet.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Your ID will be terminated shortly.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: I would like to appeal to the provost office.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: ID terminated?
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Would you like a template?
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: How?
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Yes.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: You were charged with subterfuge.
SAY: Simon ‘Ghost’ Mcshain [1]: You can’t demote me.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: I am aware.
SAY: Military Polices [1]: Your ID will still be terminated.

[Clairion]

Heya!

I’ve gone over all of the logs and I can give a bit more clarification on what charges should have been applied here.
Since both you and the goons were trying to unlawfully (in the eyes of marine law) detain the MPs that were coming on the ship to investigate the possible desertion Illegal confinement is 100% a correct charge to apply to both you and the W-Y goons.

When it comes to the subterfuge charge I can agree that its not quite correct. There weren’t any plans to undermine the USCM or anything like that.
But since you were aware that the marine was deserting the USCM (You even said it out loud to the MPs at some point) you, and honestly all of the goons who were working with you, should have been charged with Aiding and Abetting Desertion instead.

Now the MP that opened fire on the goons would have been in the wrong and its a break of our escalation rules. But from what I can see in some additional logs a staff member handled that situation in round so there doesnt need to be any follow-up on that.
The flashbang being used also comes right after that entire situation and I think its reasonable to use a flashbang in the arrest after that entire mess with you ordering the goons to arrest the MPs and the fighting that ensued.


Anyways for a neat conclusion. This player report is going to be denied and no action will be taken.
The subterfuge charge isnt quite perfect since technically it should have been aiding and abetting desertion. But I do think that the situation was chaotic enough, and the charge applied close enough to what should have been applied, that I dont need to take any punitive action regarding it. (The charge that was applied was also more lenient than the desertion charge, I might have ruled the other way if the charge applied was way harsher than what should have happened)
I can easily see how the situation can come over as subterfuge to the MPs and I dont think that they acted in bad faith in this case.