Clarity for forum Rules and better transparency in adjudication.

As some of you may know i had gotten hit with a forum suspension back in January.

Now i am not here to argue that it was truly a unfair suspension, as in the end although the posts i made was not to be a Ragebait and Drama-seeking as every thing i had wrote was sincere and genuine. I was still trying to circumvent the seeming consensus of the staffs adjudication.

But i should get to the meat of the matter. Few things you must know for context, i had made an new thread in Discussion, as for what it was about i would like tell you but if did this thread would likely get deleted. what’s more it frankly doesn’t matter as to the contents for the purposes of this policy feedback as it was not the contents its self that was a issue but the staff response.

SO if you know, you know… if you don’t you don’t and that’s just how its going to have to be.

Now from my understanding of the forum rules the thread i had made broke none of them, but my post had gotten deleted with out any notice or explanation whatsoever. The post had no commonly understood objectable content or anything NSFW. At most it was some what snide but that was the worst of the content held with in.

As such i had just thought it was a case of one off error, or perhaps a rogue actor. So i took reasonable actions i sent a polite inquiry with staff message and left the matter for day. After i had gotten back on the next day, i had noted that i had never gotten a response. But the message had number of views on it meaning that clearly some one look at my inquiry.

Seeing how no one was getting back to me, i just decided to remake my post under the assumption that i did some thing dumb and deleted some how. The post when up and with in the hour it was delated yet again.

Yet again with no explanation or notice, seeing this i had come to the belief that there was in fact a rogue actor in staff abusing their position. So elected to directly contact members of staff i believe are of good and just character.

Later that afternoon they reached back to me, telling me they were looking into the matter and where seeking a clarification from the members of staff that were deleting my posts.

Now matter seem to being looking up so choose to remake my post for third time. Now i will admit that this was wrong move for me to do and i should have waited longer, i was in fact in the wrong for that.

Now this time my post stayed up longer, but in the end it got locked and hide. Now this was the only time i had gotten any explanation whatsoever. But it did not tell me as the why the post where being deleted. Only the reason why the post was getting locked as it was the matter that was not up for change.

As such Discussion simply not on the table.

Now you may wonder as to why i eaten the suspension… i had made forth post this one was my longest out of all of them and was largely a critique of roleplay standers. But i did bring up my earlier matter into it as well as it was key part of my critique.

so it was related but not more of the same. My forth post got deleted as far as i know and i had gotten hit with the suspension.

now with in all this matters i did learn that the deletions had been coming from up the ladder so to speak, who it was frankly does not matter to this discussion. But does matter is that there was seeming consensus among a number of staff, but was not written in the rules or clearly conveyed to me or the staff that i had contacted as they also seem be a bit befuddled as to the reason for the deletions.

Now this whole matter was rather troublesome for me and poisoned my feelings to the server. it was not do to the fact i was not getting my way but the lack of transparency over the whole matter. i as perhaps some of the staff may know had gotten a job ban for griefing MPs as a MT if you wish to look at the matter just look for my ban appeal.

The reason i brought up this Jban is to highlight something important that being the fact it was concise, transparent and JUST matter of adjudication. I was told what i did wrong in clear manner, and was given a method to redeem my self or at least argue my case to lift the Jban.

which in the end was in fact lifted and i have been playing clean as tech ever since.

I may have been angry about the ban at the time i got hit with it but in the end it never poison my views of anyone in the server. That was thanks to the fact the clarity of the rules and transparency that had happen in the adjudication.

Once i calmed down i could see what i had done wrong and feel remorseful about it… simply put it allowed for rehabilitation.

But this matter on the other hand? I do not know what rule, I broke and the staff where unable or unwilling to clarify for me. which left me grasping at straws and in the end wasting my time.

Had they simply locked and given a short explanation as to why on my first post the whole matter would have been dealt with there. This server may have open github but that does not mean every thing We as a community want to add will be added. even for matters that had great deal of love and work put into it.

This is understandable the maintainers and the host are not beholden to add everything, so had they simply told me the matter was not up for discussion… while i would not be happy, i would not hold anyone at fault and simply let the matter lay.

This lack of Clarity for the forum rules and lack of transparency had just wasted me, the staff i contacted, and the staffs doing the moderations time and birthed undue animosity that was avoidable.

What i am asking for is for the forum rules to be made more clear and for any other moderation to only use deletion as last resort for matters that clearly and blatantly with in common understanding a grievous breach of the rules. matters like doxing some one or posting NSFW content.

Also for locked threads to be told why its being locked and to be not hidden unless necessary allowing a visible record of essentially the set precedent. this will allow for forum members to start to form a better common understanding, as well as stopping this song and dance that was this whole matter was. to be less likely to happen.

!EDIT AFTER BEING CLOSED JUST FOR CONTEXT!

seeing how they are willing to bring this matter up i wish just to give bit more details about the context, i know nothing is going to come from this policy feedback but want others who read this have my side of the story.

Yes the post in question were about the JIMA flag, i was trying to argue that JIMA flag not flying UCSM colors was LRP…that was it… no really that was all i was argueing. the only other matter of note was that i was unhappy that the master code on GitHub didn’t have the flag overrides as part of it. meaning that there was much harder for community to make a suitable compromises.

The matter about killing CM was never out right said by me. That was never my argument with in my JIMA flag posts but kind of was in the forth post. as after seeing what had happen with rest of my posts i taken note of response it was getting from the staff.

and then logically deduced that there are issues with Rule 3: Community Expectations. as clearly my first posts had nothing wrong with them from my POV but there was issue from the staffs POV.

more or less i was saying in my 4th post that RP is getting worst do to the lack of a common understanding. but yes although i was not out right vitriolic i was very salty at that point but i tryed my best to be as polite as i can.

last thing i wish to note is that i only posted one time the first day and the next after the lack of response i posted again and if recall right the rest of the posts happen all in one night, but it was late so perhaps it did go into the next day.

Edit 2.

this was the only explanation i had ever gotten.

this was on the 3th post

and after i got hit with a suspension for my 4th post

anyhow that should be all the context needed from my side, if you were able to get through this all have nice day and thank you for giving me your time.

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i understand that clarifying the forum rules will take a level of effort, but as forum rules are as of now they are so vague as to be not really useful.

My first second and third post never broke any thing, at least out right as it is written. but its seem to be be unwritten rules. That’s a issue, how am i supposed to know what i can and can not do if i am not told.

Here is the thing some of my other threads are filled with Toxicity pointed at ME that never had gotten locked or posts deleted. That is not the only thread filled with what is clearly toxicity but never gets touched.

The fact is just saying don’t be Toxic without having clarity about what that actually means…just lets the mods do what every they feel like. there is no clear consistency which is not at all good. having to walk on egg shells is not fun.

All i am really asking for is the unwritten rules to be written that’s it really.

yes i know, but you know what takes more time dealing with a stubborn mule like my self. if they have the time to delete my posts with in mins they have time to tell me why. They have reason why they are doing it just tell me it.

its better for all parties involved for proper procedure to be done, and if they are unable to give me reason for the deletion then the post probably should not have been deleted in the first place.

and if they do give reason and am still acting out then they can hit me with ban with out needing to explain themselves if i kick up fuss with the other staff members.

this is also why i am asking for post that get locked to not be hide or deleted unless truly needed. it lets precedent to form meaning that the understanding and interpretation of the rules can start to be understood with out having to necessarily needing to revamp the rule fully.

its essentially a organic way of gaining clarity on the rules.

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I think getting your post deleted probably means that you shouldn’t post it again. It’s like a nonverbal warning

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the only issue with that line of thinking is when i contacted directly the few staff members i trusted they also were asking the staff who did the deletion for clarification. so it was not just me wondering why… you must understand they KEEP logs of the deleted posts, meaning that staff i contacted would have been able to see if was in clear violation.

a nonverbal warning is rather useless as doesn’t tell me what did wrong, all it does is let me stumble around in the dark risking stepping on another landmine. also just because its deleted doesn’t mean it was deleted in good faith. i know i didn’t post anything blatantly and with out doubt a break of the rules like for example doxing.

so it must have been the other rules, and in that case why did they need to delete it and not just lock and hide? deleting it only served to make me think that a staff was abusing their powers, as it was clearly not some thing that HAD to be deleted.

you see if it had been locked and hidden i would KNOW what member of staff did it allowing me clearly make a staff complaint if believe they were in the wrong and abusing their power. so in such a case as what had happened with me deletion only served embolden me as i genuinely believed that i was fully in the right.

it became less of a warning and more rallying cry for my stubborn butt to keep going. I may be stubborn but i am not unreasonable had they just told me WHY i would have dropped it.

and its not as if didn’t try asking why before posting again. perhaps could have given them more time yes, but it was not like didn’t give them a reasonable amount of time to do so at first.

also i want to point some thing out, you give nonverbal warnings to dogs not people. if a kid trying crossing the street when their are cars coming you don’t just stop them and waggle your finger at them.

no you tell the kid WHY what they tried to do is bad. The reason we give dogs nonverbal warnings is because they can’t really understand verbal warning much better then the non type.

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Hey Catzonwheelz,

I’m sorry the reason given in the email and the previous deletions wasn’t clear enough.

If it wasn’t clear: daily posting that the JIMA Flag is killing CM and is against lore, isn’t going to get it changed.

I don’t feel we need to overhaul the forums rules, but I think in the future its best practice to not post daily threads rehashing the same issues when you’ve been given a response.

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