DangerRevolution - Whitelist Report: Viktor R. Kleiner, Spirit of the Whitelist

[DangerRevolution ("Cyclops" & XSO)]

DangerRevolution - Whitelist Report: Viktor R. Kleiner, Spirit of the Whitelist

What’s your BYOND key?

DangerRevolution

Round ID:

30740

Your character name:

Salazar ‘Cyclops’ Petrovich

Accused BYOND key:

N/A

Accused character name:

Viktor R. Kleiner

What rule(s) were broken?:

Spirit of the Whitelist

Whitelist in question:

Commanding Officer

Description of the incident:

I’m (unfortunately) playing Bravo SL. Roundstart I’m delayed in attending brief because of huge Req lines on both ends. It’s communicated to me through my FTL (not the CO or XO) that the FOB for this operation is in “West River”. That’s vague, but a FOB off of LZ could be interesting and there’s definitely some benefit to it. I open the Tacmap (attached below) and FOB is pictured to be BEHIND Landing Zone 2.

I voice my concern on Bravo radio and no one replies, but that’s fine. After I eventually get ready and move to the Medbay; I raise concerns on the Command radio about the feasability and I get no reply. I deploy, and I ahelp on the way down on the Alamo if I’m actually required to follow this order. I won’t post the ahelp log, I’m not sure if I’m allowed to, but even the admin says “No I just looked at the Tacmap, you don’t have to”.

COs “must act as role models in both roleplay and setting the atmosphere of the server. You must look, dress and behave with a mentality befitting the setting and role.” CO applicants are judged off their ability to command and lead operations, as well as roleplay. There’s no IC or even OOC reasoning AT ALL to putting the FOB behind the LZ. It’s equivalent to landing LZ2 Solaris and setting up your Forward Operating BASE in the cave system on the west side of LZ.

No matter how you spin this FOB, Xenos or whatever other enemy was planetside, break in to the now-lightly-defended landing zone and run it over. Let’s assume that Major Kleiner was super-IC and wanted a convenient place to store supplies for an expedition: the supplies are now wet, and your Forward Operating BASE is in the corner of the AO.

I AHelped and the admin allowed me (as an SL) to ignore the CO’s order because following it would’ve been detrimental to the round. I spent all the resources on Robotics and Corpo Dome and instructed my Marines to also ignore the orders to check West FOB. However, the CO did not let up that the FOB WAS in West River. He sent repeated squad messages to defend both the river and LZ. Eventually, the Queen broke in through the south of the Alamo landing pad. I loop back to the main point, what was the plan if we were all holding around Comms in the river? What was the FOB going to do then? Given Alpha, Charlie and Delta were mostly wiped - what were all the defenses in the riverbed going to do? Compromise the Marines’ security and end, most likely, with the Queen taking the Alamo for free. COs have some expectation of making the round fun and engaging for all Marines, deliberately compromising the Marines’ ability to defend by instructing them to spend all their metal and time off of the LZ and instead building BEHIND IT is not how a Commanding Officer behaves IC or OOC. There’s no way to justify OOC or IC putting the FOB there.

A point:

• This could’ve been the XO’s creation, in which case I still believe the CO should still intervene and not allow the XO to set the Marine’s main defensive structure and supply point behind the landing zone.

Evidence:

[Album] Kleiner Tacmap

Imgur is blocked in the UK but I don’t know any other (and don’t want to find any other) image host but I can send the image over the forum messages if needed

[onetoughcreampuff (Romayne Mens)]

QM here.

Some pointers. I have honestly, no opinion on Kleiners actions or inactions but regardless.

• I had already brought 7 crates of metal (as I always do). On top of that two SLs provided engineer kits topping it at 490 metal (including the req starting metal) and 115 plasteel, and 100 sandbags. Roughly around the hour mark (from memory) @dangerRevolution radio’d that they needed more metal. I play a very very stringent QM but I was informed that FoB wasn’t even finished and that they had truely run out of mats. I spent even more to get a further 200 metal. This is also ontop of the fact that when marines retreated I was told they brought back the unused metal from front which could be anywhere between 150 metal or 0. FOB breached due to lack of lines, which is probably a result of the lack of attention to the LZ itself owing to the plan.

• FOB co ords were called in, into fob which I checked the remanents of the ammo pile as a ghost and I confirmed that the FOB co ords were most likely FOB regardless of whatever order was given out

• Admittedly I turn off all non req radios at the start of the round so I can keep a track of orders, but I was pretty sure I was reading radio by the time they dropped and it wasn’t very well communicated that the river was the main hold point if I had only found out about it an hour in.

[Axyinious (Viktor R. Kleiner)]

To quote Standard Operating Procedure:

SOP

• The Primary Extraction Point (PEP), such as aircraft landing zones (LZs), are to be reinforced with a minimum line of non-makeshift defenses to prevent enemies being able to capture the LZ.

• Whilst the automated turrets provided on initial drop are valuable assets, they do not count as the minimum line of defense. At least one layer of static barricades is required around the Primary Extraction Point.

• Action must be taken to protect the PEP within a short, and reasonable, period after Primary Deployment.

The Forward Operating Base doesn’t need to be at the LZ proper. It can be anywhere on the map. The Primary Extraction Point (LZ) should be secured with at least with one or two lines of defenses to ensure that hostile forces do not overrun it.

During Round 30740, the plan was the following:

Alpha and Charlie would advance out of West LZ2 and head north to Inflatables. Once there, they would flank west and begin an incursion in Caves.

Delta was responsible for getting comms online NORTH of LZ2 and heading to Inflatables. They were tasked with pushing the main Western Cave choke.

Bravo was tasked with establishing a Forward Operating Base at the Western River Line and secure defenses at the Landing Zone.

Contrary to what you claim, there is a clear reason to put the FOB there.

In case the flanking manuever failed, the marines would have a safe retreat route back to the Landing Zone, guarded by defenses at the Riverline. That position is also strategically important to the marine side as the communications tower is also there.

West River is a terrain advantage to marines as water can slow down xenos significantly and water is unweedable, which means they can’t heal or recover plasma while crossing the river.

I thought this would be a possible scenario after a failed offensive in Caves. Xenos could just flank us from the east and cut us off from the LZ, resulting in another wipe.

During the round, the LZ was properly secured with metal barricades and folding metal barricades with wires. The Bravo SL which I presume to have taken the ahelp as a leeway to ignore orders, proceeded to venture outside LZ-2, along with several other Bravo marines, leaving the LZ unproperly manned with only some comtechs. I’ve seen them through helmet cameras at Hydro and some Bravo marines ventured near Containers where they got themselves killed by a backliner force. The Bravo SL even engaged with a Predator at Hydro and died or went in crit, in fact.

While that happened, I’ve sent several messages through the squad console and comms, ordering Bravo to properly guard both the LZ and the River. That round, most of Bravo died outside the LZ and FOB.

I’d like to point out that several times during the round, I made a determined attempt to ensure the LZ was properly guarded and barricaded by listening to groundside callouts regarding metal supplies and constantly ordering Bravo marines to keep watch over both the LZ and the intended FOB.
From my point of view the LZ was breached with ease because we lost one squad in Caves and some members of the squad assigned to guard the LZ and the FOB ventured out and died far from the frontline.

During most of the round, I was admin PMed and had my attention diverted from the ground, which I believe contributed greatly to Charlie’s wipe in Caves. The XO also had some connection issues which led to a lack of announcements and callouts.

[DangerRevolution ("Cyclops" & XSO)]

@Axyinious

In case the flanking manuever failed, the marines would have a safe retreat route back to the Landing Zone, guarded by defenses at the Riverline. That position is also strategically important to the marine side as the communications tower is also there.

If this was your consideration: why not put the FOB north of Robotics, or at Medbay? You could’ve even just ordered us to build an outpost at Medbay. You could’ve even ordered us to barricade off the west river (from Comms to the Cave) to catch the few people who’d retreat from Inflatables to Comms rather Inflatables than Robotics. I struggle to see a world where FOB-ing on west river is the natural conclusion for this thinking.

@Axyinious

proceeded to venture outside LZ-2, along with several other Bravo marines, leaving the LZ unproperly manned with only some comtechs. I’ve seen them through helmet cameras at Hydro and some Bravo marines ventured near Containers where they got themselves killed by a backliner force.

Bravo’s front team walked into Containers and died. I tried to confirm if someone had recovered them but got no answer, shortly after I get the vague order of the XO that “Marines are down NE of Robotics”? I took a Delta and my Bravo rifleman and ran into a marine with wounded on a rollerbed saying there’s more wounded east (At Hydro). We walk into Hydro, a Predator randomly wiped like 3-4 Marines by the looks of it, so we quickly kill it (I don’t go crit) and take the wounded back to FOB.

@Axyinious

During most of the round, I was admin PMed and had my attention diverted from the ground, which I believe contributed greatly to Charlie’s wipe in Caves. The XO also had some connection issues which led to a lack of announcements and callouts.

I can understand this. It happens.

@Axyinious

That round, most of Bravo died outside the LZ and FOB.

@Axyinious

and some members of the squad assigned to guard the LZ and the FOB ventured out and died far from the frontline.

The unfortunate reality of Bravo SL is that I can’t force people to watch barricades and desert roads. I had about 50% of my squad wanting to go to the front, nothing I can do about it, but it’s not an irregular number of Front-ers for highpop.

[detectivegoogle]

@Axyinious

During Round 30740, the plan was the following:

For clarity, is this first image edited? When reviewing the administrator tacmap panel during this round these yellow lines were not present.

[Axyinious (Viktor R. Kleiner)]

@DangerRevolution

If this was your consideration: why not put the FOB north of Robotics, or at Medbay? You could’ve even just ordered us to build an outpost at Medbay. You could’ve even ordered us to barricade off the west river (from Comms to the Cave) to catch the few people who’d retreat from Inflatables to Comms rather Inflatables than Robotics. I struggle to see a world where FOB-ing on west river is the natural conclusion for this thinking.

The FOB can be put anywhere. The definition of Forward Operating Base is a secured military position located in a forward area to support tactical operations. It serves as a strategic center for launching and supporting military activities, often with facilities like a hospital, although it may also be as basic as a fortified position.

In this specific plan, I only wanted Western River as a fortified position. The plan was not to concentrate all supplies there, just to make an above average secured position that would cover a retreat. I fail to see how this is a problem because it was done before, just not with the correct wording of a FOB.

In fact, I can recall Windhealer and other COs like Juro doing FOBs at Jungles and Riverlines.

@detectivegoogle

For clarity, is this first image edited? When reviewing the administrator tacmap panel during this round these yellow lines were not present.

The original tactical map is the one posted in the report. I just edited the original tactical map to clarify the locations I wanted each squad to be or to secure defenses. I forgot to draw some lines at the LZ in the original but the intent to fortify it well was conveyed through command announcements and squad messages.

@DangerRevolution

The unfortunate reality of Bravo SL

Marine leadership roles as a whole can not force people to follow orders unlike the xeno side where they are a hivemind. When you do an off-meta plan or order a unique location to hold and it works, you will be praised for doing something different but when it doesn’t work, you will be accused of griefing or throwing. There is no in between. What I personally find tedious is doing the same things on each map every time. I’ve been around since 2019 and played LV-624 countless times, it’s the best map in my honest opinion to do something different but the marine side is ingrained with holding Hydro every damn time and getting giga flanked by the Queen from the west or east.

Regardless if the Council dewhitelists me because of this, every round I’ve done my gimmick plans, I’ve never blamed anyone for them going wrong. Things are never going to go exactly as planned each time. If you want to do a meta plan every time, there’s nothing wrong with it. But punishing players for doing plans that deviate from the standard is never going to be fine for me and I don’t want to be in the Commanding Officer whitelist anymore if that is going to be the norm.

[Harrysno]

Hi DangerRevolution,

The Council has reviewed the logs and other information concerning this report, and we are electing to approve it. Commanding Officers are indeed meant to act as role models for the rest of the server when it comes to roleplay and setting the atmosphere of the round. Through the actions we’ve seen in this round and over the course of many other rounds that have been reported to me and other members of the Council (both past and present), we’ve come to the conclusion that the player in question here has continually failed to uphold the standards and spirit of the CO Whitelist.

Due to past punishments given for similar behaviors, the player in question has been removed from the whitelist.