Drakyry - Staff Report: Enforcement Action Taken - NessiePendragon

[Draky]

Drakyry - Staff Report: Enforcement Action Taken - NessiePendragon

What’s your BYOND key:

Drakyry

Round ID:

20042

Your character name:

Mike Goldberg

Their BYOND key:

NessiePendragon

What are you reporting?:

Enforcement Action Taken

Description of the incident:

Some gal barged into the fob medical tent while I was getting surgery and stole my gun despite mine (and the doc’s) protests. Played it off like it was nothing too. I reported it on the squad comms, but got no response. I tracked her down and asked for the gun back; she refused, leading to a fight, which gradually escalated into a gunfight. Got noted for improper escalation during the gunfight part. Apparently according to the admin during the gunfight i’ve went into paincrit and the fight stopped for about 20 seconds. When it resumed with the other party attacking me in melee as i was being treated by a medic, I’ve responded by firing my gun again, killing the other party. That according to the admin constituted improper escalation with him citing the following rule:

“If at any point combat is disengaged and both parties leave the area, you cannot skip escalation and plunge back into a fight. What’s done is done.”

Except for neither of us left the area, and I don’t believe an interruption that short should have been considered disengagement either. Also, roleplay-wise, being meleed by the same marine you were in a (legitimate) firefight with 20 seconds prior doesn’t fit a fists-only response.

Evidence:

check the logs i guess

[Steelpoint]

Relevant logs posted. If you believe I have missed any information or have misconstrued something important for your case, please contact me on Discord.

Involved Parties
Mike Goldberg | Reporting Player | Drakyry
NessiePendragon | Staff Member

Ancillery Involved Parties
Frost Whitelock | Alpha SL

Mike Goldberg is receiving surgery planet side, following this he notices his firearm and armour have been stolen by Frost Whitelock

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:21:17.654	20042	INTERACT	INTERACT: (Burt Goodman) began mending organs in Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)'s chest, beginning Organ Rejuvenation Surgery.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:21:18.513	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [1]: Fucking hell (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:21:52.865	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [General]: Hey cic can you set the current alpha sl frost something for arrest (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:04.370	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [General]: He barged into the surgery tent while i was being operated on (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:15.832	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [General]: Took the gun from under my body then ran off (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:25.684	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [1]: Did he take my fucking armor too? (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:35.986	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [1]: Amazing (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)

Mike finds and confronts Frost. He escalates this to a fight.

I’m cutting out most of the attack logs, I have kept the relevant logs indicating who attacks first, and who escalates the fight to the next level.

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:54.853	20042	ATTACK	ATTACK: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) disarmed /( Frost Whitelock) in the �Aerodrome Landing Pad (141,116,2).
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:56.352	20042	ATTACK	ATTACK: /( Frost Whitelock) disarmed Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) in the �Aerodrome Landing Pad (141,115,2).
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:22:58.376	20042	SAY	SAY: Mike Goldberg [1]: GIVE IT BACK (CKEY: Drakyry) (JOB: Fireteam Leader)

Frost escalates to a knife.

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:25:10.641	20042	ATTACK	ATTACK: /( Frost Whitelock) attacked Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) with �M5 ‘Night Raider’ bayonet (INTENT: HURT) (DAMTYE: BRUTE) in the �Aerodrome Hangar ‘Alpha’ (119,132,2).

The fight is interrupted by some other attending Marines, this log is the final attack log noted between the two players.

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:25:17.144 20042 ATTACK ATTACK: /( Frost Whitelock) punched Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) in the �Aerodrome Hangar ‘Alpha’ (119,133,2).
|—|—|—|—|

There are some grab attempts made but no more attack logs. At this point, Mike argues with the person who interrupts and stops the fight.

Frost recommences his attack on Mike by disarming him

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:25:50.257	20042	ATTACK	ATTACK: /( Frost Whitelock) disarmed Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) in the �Colony Central Valley (115,127,2).

The first firearm attack log by Mike,

I’m only including the initial attack log, the remaining attack logs continue until Frost is dead.

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:25:59.835 20042 ATTACK ATTACK: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) shot /( Frost Whitelock) with a rifle bullet in the �Colony Central Valley
|—|—|—|—|

This is the end of the relevant in-game event. The following are the two ahelp logs of the round. These logs are quite long.

Frost Ahelps regarding the incident.

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:26:27.911	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: Ticket #16: /( Frost Whitelock): mike goldberg shot me after out properly esclatet querrel ended and executed me on the ground
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:27:37.995	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->/( Frost Whitelock): Alright, could you please kindly explain to me what happened?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:28:44.244	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/(): Oh yeah I took his gun after I got field stripped since I thought it was mine, so he came disarmed me and forcbily took my M2C, I disarmed him and tried to took my M2C back in which he stabbed me, I stabbed him back and I won the fight, I disengaged him once he was passed out, then this guy comes and shoots me point blank while we both were getting medical treatment, I pass out and he shoots me on the ground to kill me.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:29:03.057	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/(): It was all properly esclated until he shot me after I disengaged when he got knocked out
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:30:37.588	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/( )->/( Frost Whitelock): So this guy, mike goldberg, was a third party involving, am I correct?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:31:12.788	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/( ): No, it was a querrel between us, I took his gun since I thought it was mine, yada yada and after I knocked him out in a fair fight and disengaged, he comes and shoots me while we were both getting medical treatme
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:31:43.734	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/( ): Specifically he shoots me until I was knocked out, and point blanks me to death.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:44:26.022	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/( )->/( Frost Whitelock): So, I see an approx. 20 seconds gap between first escalation and the shootout, could you explain to me what happened in that 20 seconds?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:46:20.056	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/( ): I had IB and got treated in FOB Medical tent, took his gun that I thought was mine, and then I realised that attachments did not match my gun, I dropped his gun to west FOB where he shot me later, and I went back to the tent after finding my gun & armor somewhere else. That guy came up to me and tried to disarm me and tell me to give it back so I lead him to the place where I dropped his gun. I showed him the gun, but either someone else took the gun or I have severe amensia because after he took his M41A he still went to disarm and strip me of my M2C and thats where the esclation started
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:50:58.528	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/( ): Anything else that you would like to know? I’ll be heading to sleep soon but you can probably still communicate to me through discord if you need to
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:52:39.609	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/( )->/( Frost Whitelock): I just wanted to say that, they’re pretty upset about your behaviour. I don’t have the time to check the say logs and you’re not in trouble, but I just want to say that please try to remain calm and understanding! Thank you for your report, and I will handle it before the round end, iyi geceler!
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:54:06.216	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: /( Frost Whitelock)->NessiePendragon/( ): Nope I was pretty calm and just roleplayed my usual SL asthetic, I even showed them polietly where their gun was, since that was my fault and I got annoyed when that happens, but I got real mad when this dude took my main gun which is the M2C so I chased him down (I roleplay SL very harshly and use swear words a lot to make that drill sergeant feel, anyways thank you!)
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:54:48.028	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/( )->/( Frost Whitelock): It’s all good!

Drakyry is contacted by NessiePendragon.

Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:28:06.390	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): Hey there buddy, what happened?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:28:25.071	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): can it wait until after we evac?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:28:43.195	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): alright, nevermind i guess, here’s the shrot gist of it:
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:29:01.495	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/( )->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): You’re sitting on the Alamo, so I guess you can explain to me. But it’s fine, as long as you will get back to me post evac.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:29:48.466	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): I was getting fob surgery, this guy barges into the tent, takes my gun, runs away. the doctor saw it all and even tried to stop it but couldn’t. you can ask the fob doctor, he’ll confirm my story ive tracked that guy down asked for my gun back, he wouldn’t give it back, instead he tried to steal my armour, so i ended up following the proper escalation procedure - hitting with fists - knife - gun and killed him
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:30:20.905	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): so that’s the gist of it, stole my gun, wouldnt give it back, kept being an ass about it, but ive still followed the escalation procedure so i think i havent broken any rules
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:31:03.302	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): let me scroll up the chat for the docs name, if he’s still online you could ask him for proofs
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:32:29.343	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): 2ndLt Burt Goodman is the docs name
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:33:05.220	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): if you check the logs youll also see that the first thing i did after getting from the surgery was to call command over the squad channel asking them to set the guy up for arrest for theft but i dont think they paid any attention to that
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:39:02.832	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): So uhh, you are correct, the situation had been escalated properly. However, why did you shoot her while Medics or Docs were treating both of you?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:39:53.633	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): i did? because i honestly dont remember it that way
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:41:00.693	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): i do remember people trying to break up the fight by trying to disarm both of us, but neither of us stopping hitting one another
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:41:18.109	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): i guess i was just more successful at finishing the job
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:41:54.546	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): also, you know, SHE STOLE MY GUN FROM UNDER MY SURGERY BED and ran away even as the surgeon was trying to stop her. I mean, who the fuck does that?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:42:38.921	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): if anything that alone was probably a rulebreak since i remember there being a rule about not being an asshole
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:44:30.989	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/( )->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): So, I see an approx. 20 seconds gap between first escalation and the shootout, could you explain to me what happened in that 20 seconds?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:45:33.981	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): what do you mean by the first escalation?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:45:38.263	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): the start of the fight?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:45:49.781	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): the first hit? the first disarm? which is it?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:48:31.178	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): [21:25:29] Has been punched by( Frost Whitelock) [21:25:33] Grabbed by (Sailor Thiessen) [21:25:50] Has been disarmed by ( Frost Whitelock) [21:25:59] Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg) shot/( Frost Whitelock) with a rifle bullet in the Colony Central Valley. between 29 and 59, apparently that medic was treating you after the escalation, then something happened and frost shoved you then you shot her to kill.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:48:51.663	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): to the best of my ability i remember the following: i’ve asked for my gun back, when she wouldn’t comply, i’ve started disarming her, she’s started disarming me, and was more successful at that partially because she had help from the surrounding marines whod evidently had no idea what was going on. that lasted for some time, i’d say 20-30 seconds alone I dont remember who threw the first punch, but I think i was the one to escalate to the knife fight, i’ve hit her several times, she had hit me several times that…
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:49:02.261	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): oh, that, i remember
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:49:35.487	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): uh the way i remember i got hit pretty badly by her knife so a medic dragged me away to treat me, then i think she came and started either disarming or punching me in the back while i was being treated
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:50:12.895	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): it was around that time i’ve pulled out my gun and finished her off but my recollection of that is honestly somewhat fuzzy, i think you’d be better off asking the medic who was treating me at that time
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:51:20.835	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): Yeah, that moment, the escalation has to be re-escalated from the beginning, she shoved you and you should’ve disarmed or punched her, not shooting. I already questioned the Medic.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:52:23.306	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): well i dont think that it should have, i mean i didnt die ot go into cardiac arrest at the time, so should i have re-started the escalation? the fight never ended?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:53:22.363	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): i mean if she had killed me in that fight and i went back to her after getting ressucitated and killed her that would have required re-escalation, but taht didnt happen
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:54:07.985	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): i’ve only gotten dragged away from her a little bit by a single medic while she kept pursuing me and as you’ve mentioned punching me or even knifing me, i dont remember exactly what she was attacking me with at that time
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:56:28.342	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/(): also just to hammer that point down, none of that would have happened and i wouldn’t have spent the last 20 minutes talking to you over this if she didnt chose on her own volition to barge into the medical tent to steal someone elses gun mid surgery then play it off like it was nothin
Dec 20, 2023 @ 21:57:47.673	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg: Alright so, that 20 seconds gap and third party’s testimony shows that, the escalation ended after you went into crit, it means that the fight is ended and shall be re-escalated if you want to fight them again. I can understand your frustration due to Frost’s behaviour, I just talked to them. However, you should’ve disarmed or punched them back instead of shooting them to kill.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:00:56.330	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): I honestly dont remember if i’ve even went into paincrit back then, but even if so, i’ve just glanced over the rules and all they say is For example: Inaprovaline Overdoses, Chloral Hydrate, Tramadol/Oxycodone Overdoses If at any point combat is disengaged and both parties leave the area, you cannot skip escalation and plunge back into a fight. What’s done is done.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:02:22.581	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): im sorry but i just dont see how that rule translates into the situation that we’ve been in, not only we were physically in the same area, but she had kept attacing me, whether with punches or otherwise (i dont remember) as I was being treated. IT would have been absurd from a roleplay reason for me not to be allowed to pull a gun on her after she, as you say, had cut me with her knife into paincrit from which i emerged only to be kept being punched/hit/whatever by her again
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:07:28.089	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): Alright so, I have to issue a note per Rule 10 - Improper Escalation. My reason to issue the note is simple as I’ve said before, you followed the escalation rules correctly at first, but after that 20 seconds gap, you can’t keep that escalation where it used to be, it had to be re-escalated, but instead, you shot her to kill which falls under Improper Escalation.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:08:00.907	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg)->NessiePendragon/( ): can you cite me the part of the rules where that is written?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:08:26.187	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: NessiePendragon/()->Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): Sure! If at any point combat is disengaged and both parties leave the area, you cannot skip escalation and plunge back into a fight. What’s done is done.
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:10:48.691	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: Ticket #20: Drakyry/(Mike Goldberg): the rule states that If at any point combat is disengaged and both parties leave the area, you cannot skip escalation and plunge back into a fight. What’s done is done. and you translate it as "the combat was broken for 20 seconds therefore you should have reescalated again, are you serious?
Dec 20, 2023 @ 22:11:39.791	20042	ADMIN	ADMIN: PM: Drakyry/(Unknown (as Mike Goldberg))->NessiePendragon/( ): even if those 20 seconds did happen even if they count as disengagement there’s still the second part of the rule that states that both parties should have left the area - we never did

[Clairion]

Heya!
I looked over the situation and it really is an edgecase, so its difficult to make a ruling on.

For the simple things first: When it comes to taking the armour I can only come to the conclusion that it was genuine confusion and the other player thinking that that was their gear.
Frost got treated by the same doctor a little less than a minute before you were getting surgery, and they started looking for their gear right before your surgery got started.
So yeah that seems to just have been a total misunderstanding and no bad intentions from any party.

For the fight I can see you guys fighting and its a bit hard for me to judge how healthy you guys are during it. But you did get stabbed basically four times so I’m assuming you were in a pretty bad way.
(There was also a slight hiccup in the logpull. Drakyry actually starts the knife fight but doesnt use their knife after the initial stabbing, Frost responds by stabbing Drakyry three times and tossing the knife at him afterwards)

Afterwards however you guys seem to continue the fight as a fistfight with multiple other marines getting involved, mostly on the side of Drakyry.
That’s when the fight gets sort of “broken up” and you end up getting treated by the medic.
Afterwards you resume the fight since you clearly weren’t done yet and the gun comes out.

I get a lot of the frustration around getting your gear taken. It is one of the most frustrating experiences in CM.
I also agree with you in saying that this fight wasnt really “done” at all. You guys were still fighting, you were still near each other and other people were kind of continuing the fight with Frost with disarms a bit after you got pulled aside by the medic.


IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION if you would have pulled out your knife and charged him I would have considered that totally legitimate and fine, since the fight wasnt really over yet. That would also hold if they started fighting back with a knife or something similar and if you started blasting after that.
But taking out your gun, especially after the fight got both walked back to just a fistfight again AND
got interrupted, does seem like it’s going too far.

So I am going to be denying this staff report at this time, since I do think the note is appropriate.
I think @NessiePendragon had a good intuitive understanding here in seeing that the way that you escalated wasn’t appropriate, even if they didnt articulate it correctly.
The note is just a note, not a warning/ban. I also think it includes enough context and isn’t particularly harsh in its wording. So I wont be changing it. (If you are REALLY adamant about the wording being changed PM me and I can look into it with you, but I do think that its perfectly fine the way its worded now.)
For action taken I’m going to go over this situation with nessie to make sure they know why this situation was note worthy but I wont be taking any punitive action.