I think it’d be healthier for the game to move away from cap based gameplay and into kill based.
However in a vacuum this PR will just make capping almost impractical and for no real gain or compensation elsewhere
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Meanwhile clicking an area and deleting three to four xenos and ending their round IS SO MUCH FUN. Get over yourself, there’s shitty mechanics but turning an already tedious mechanic into an actual chore is not improving the game either.
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People who want to say ‘it reinforces team play!’ have an obviously flawed fundamental understanding of xeno gameplay. The game is balanced around most castes being perfectly capable as lone operatives. Trying to force them to work together for something as basic as capturing a single marine will just lead to less people capturing than they already do.
It’s already a chore to capture marines that whip out explosives or firebombs or shotguns at the drop of the hat. This just shifts the annoyance of capture mechanics further onto xenos.
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anyone getting solo capped by drones should reflect on their actions
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If you want to see more caps (and marine attrition in general) just double marine crit hp
Finally, Morrow PR.2
Gonna throw my take on this.
Removing 2 tap stun gameplay is amazing considering how bad it feels to just be tackled twice then your out for the entire game however I do not agree on making a xeno require 7 tackles for a single person though just my take on it.
Making it more based on health than RNG will give marines more of a reason to play smart instead of recklessly pushing unless they wish to be captured easily.
Also I want to put this out that yes both sides rely on teamwork to do alot but xenos are far more individual than team. Marines are REQUIRED to work together to achieve reasonable outcome but xenos can operate pretty individually or just alone from each other and still obtain outstanding results on the field. Yea capping nerfs are needed to balance some things out but the consequence of this will probably be alot more QUEEN ON FIELD SUPER EARLY!!! Due to difficulty spike when it comes to capturing marines now. (It is still possible but alot more xenos are unlikely to do it now)
Take example warrior requiring 6 at highest and 3 at lowest. Not very encouraging. But then we got the roles such as defender and drone that can do 3/4 taps. which are very rewarding so it’ll probably just mean xenos who are designed for frontlining will just stop capping and resort to support roles to do it instead.
Also can we like not make lurker require 7 tackles if they got alot of health. It quite literally ruins lurker if they are trying to capture marines with the queen nearby
4 Likes
Chen “Disco King” Wentonian. He is the man. Disco never dies. @WinterClould
its good to have a mid-point in opinions, so i thank you for that, and rest assured, the numbers are pretty much destined to change, even morrow had issues with them when he gave this pr a go
as for the frontliners forgoing capping, thats not entirely the point but i consider it to be a little bonus, in the end, yes, this is completely a nerf to xeno, i wont deny that, frontline castes having a rough time capping is a bit of the intention
as for the backline and support castes, their nerfs are in favor of gameplay thats a little less annoying to combat, they’re still supposed to be centered around their ability to get in and out quickly, and therefore are meant to be good for capping, my intention is not to strip them of this
as for the lurker issue, the first paragraph should describe my thoughts enough, numbers will change, this PR will adapt to the playerbase, not the other way around
i hope that calms nerves a bit
If this change goes through we could buff larva per cap to be higher like before? Then at least an individual cap is far more worthwhile than now and would justify the effort.
Making caps require more concentrated effort than frenzy into 2 tap cap may be a positive change.
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very possible, i’d recommend talking around with others and coming back to me with ideas, i wanna make sure changes are reinforced by positivity
Such a long thread for such a dumb change. Just remove RNG and work out sane tackle numbers that dont allow degenerate stunlock abuse - would take like 15 minutes tops if you asked anyone decent at the game and another 15 minutes to change the numbers.
Wasting days/weeks/months for a system that’s gonna be worse is rather questionable. Not only does it require more unnecessary visual clutter (cause xenos need to see marine health status) but it’ll be similarly prone to abuse by marines since you’ll know the exact moment you should suicide to prevent capture just by looking at your health HUD. At least now you have to choose between trying to fight and make it out or suiciding instantly, with this change you can do both. Unnecessary handholding for marines that already committed the mistake of walking around alone. Also funny issues with marines healing - imagine bicard ticking someone just 1% above the health cap mid-combat lol.
As if all the above wasn’t enough it introduces tons of balance issues to xenos themselves - drones no longer able to defend themselves whatsoever, low slash xenos being incapable of capturing (ironically runner gets hard nerfed here as if it wasnt bad enough) and if you buff them to prevent this, you end up on the other spectrum where tackling happens too fast on damaged targets.
Just avoid this entire balance nightmare and give them sane static numbers. Forcing players to remember a spreadsheet of tackle numbers for every caste based on hp% isn’t a good idea, just overcomplicated for no good reason.
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wouldn’t removing RNG be prone to abuse too? “this drone has tackled me twice. the third one will knock me down. i should PB myself in the head with buckshot”
If youre going to meta tackle like that you might as well pb the drone: two put it in crit.
If you don’t already to this on the first tackle now, you have. 33% chance to get two tapped. Know you’re gonna go down in the next tackle wouldn’t change much tbh.
That’s pretty much how it works right now - you’ve a small time window to fight back or suicide, usually having to commit to choosing one and risk stuff like trading tackle for PB. My point was that with the change you can continue fighting way longer before you have to respect the tackle and chance at perma, so there’s way less of a choice/risk involved.
I wouldn’t be opposed to small sane RNG remaining anyway - like drone 2-3 with a tiny chance to work on the second one for the sake of !FUN (so long as its not stunlock into tackle like runner/lurker/warrior - these should likely remain static)
I like this change and have been advocating for something like it in the past
As someone who’s been on both ends,getting two tap game ended unfun and being the person doing it feels undeserved and cheap.
With this change, I foresee early game caps being much more rarer as the marines are at full strength, but caps mid round being increased. I don’t think frontline caps will be effected that much, since potential caps are usually already injured (left behind, splints/IB, someone ““misclicks”” as they are being dragged, exploded away from front ,trying to get healed, vamp lurker trying to heal from 98% to 100% health, etc) For the healthy ones on the frontline that are captured, there is usually more than enough xenos with stuns around to make it a non-issue.
Backliners will be the most effected as most marines going from and around FOB are at full health. Instead of pounce and capture, they must work together to incur damage either before or during a capture attempt while trying not to damage to much. Anyone going to the FOB injured is going to have a bad time too
Anyways, I think it’ll overall be beneficial for the game. There will of course be issues adjusting it, but that happens with changes like this.
2 Likes
Really my only issue with this PR is that it feels inelegant. Lots of conditions to who gets how many tackles for what hp and caste.
Overall good direction but I think it could be more intuitive and simpler.
only good thing about this pr is the warrior tackle nerf
While I do think the PR would be good, I think at minimum the game MUST communicate the tackle odds to the player. It can not rely on this being information being hidden in some description line on some github page or some 1 line reference on the wiki that is out of date.
An actual, in game, descriptor of what you’re expected tackles to stun rate is. Literally state it somewhere for each caste.
2 Likes