Forums aren't welcoming and are as rigid as gameplay.

Also with respect to the OP he’s absolutely right.

It’s not the forums specifically though, these forums are imo the most welcoming part of the ‘official’ CM community and the only places that are more welcoming are private unofficial discord channels.

There’s a clearly pervasive attitude amongst at least the senior devs/admins of CM to oppose people speaking their minds, offering feedback, discussing issues, etc. It’s been a problem for years but it’s been getting much worse lately.

The server is becoming calcified and nepotistic with a “friends of friends” approach required to actually have things heard and addressed; reputation with the right people matters more than truth, and you’ve thereupon got to play politics to change anything because honest discussion and feedback is almost outright banned.

When issues crop up the response to them is to censor it with nonsensical bureaucratic justification. Transparency is something actively opposed, which subsequently opens the door to unpunished abuse of authority. Think of it like this: When someone’s rightly banned for something, and they retell their story of it, they tend to leave out little details, they aren’t totally transparent - and those little details tend to be the actual justifications for their bans.

People just seem to naturally abuse a lack of transparency and this server’s staff are embracing it as a core principle. It’s a mistake IMO; eventually this sort of thing is going to blow up in people’s faces. It already is in a soft way, as we see with threads like this.

I remember for example, we used to show the win rate publicly. We don’t anymore though. People might look at it and use it as part of an argument regarding the current state of balance (oh no!). How is that even a bad thing? That’s only a bad thing if you want to push balance in a certain direction and genuinely don’t care what your playerbase thinks of it, so you have to deny them the information that enables them to inform themselves and make arguments in the first place.

I’m going to end this with a quote I love from a game I love:

Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."

This servers’s staff is on a bad trajectory. That’s my gut feel.

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I can’t speak to most of this, but did we ever actually publish win rates? While I did take a break from 2019 to the start of 2023, I don’t recall pre-2018 that the old devs ever published win rates publically outside of vague comments from the staff.

Also, considering we existed in the closed source era where player comments had exactly 0 weight in balance discussions and internal numbers were hidden, and people were literally banned for trying to find out information such as the amount of damage a M41A did, I think we are actually far better off nowadays than every before.

you mean the pr that is still open and not even tmd?

i don’t know what this means. we had public pr feedback on the discord up until quite recently, relatively speaking. it was just a shitshow that burned out pr contributors and never came up with anything productive because it was constant grandstanding

CleanShot 2024-01-09 at 08.19.24@2x

this for example was a thread of just constant back and forth that wasn’t helpful for anyone. the current system is a form submission of feedback that we can read without the public grandstanding. is it perfect? not sure - morrow and i set it up a long while ago,

we might well go back to having forum posts (here, not on discord), but changing the way we get feedback is only to try and gather the most effective feedback, not to suppress discussion. we don’t wade into #cm-discussion on the discord to stop people talking about prs.

i have no interest in pushing any kind of balance agenda - these things were only set up to have a positive feedback environment that didn’t involve slamming contributors for making prs that were unpopular to some segment of the community - which prs often are in this competitive game

this is just your typical privacy vs transparency approach. many people wouldn’t like to have all their bans and notes shared publicly, and that’s the route we’re going down at the moment.

i don’t know what you’re referring to here, the only thing we’ve published in that vein is that the new-round-alert bot used to post marine/xeno major/minor victories, which was removed in 2021. i don’t believe it’s strictly necessary for it to be removed, but people using winrate as a sledge against balance changes, ie: “since {x} pr has been testmerged, the winrate has gone {y}” is obviously reductive - our biggest balancing factor is always just which skill level players are on which team.

Solid agree. The server in the apop feweh days was so, so much worse in terms of staff, accountability and transparency. CM has gotten orders of magnitude better from where it began, though I do agree things should be more transparent. After all, things can always backslide- But in all honesty, I don’t believe it’ll ever regress to Apop era levels of shittery. Going open source was the best decision staff ever made.

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Wait, that actually happened?

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I love how everybody leaves out the fact that it was an obvious joke after an actual serious response.

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Tbh I don’t blame devs some people make terrible ideas and are extremely loud. Drowns the dudes who actually want to better the game

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True man. Bad apples and all that.

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Seeing posts in Acid Goop archived and unlisted, for seemingly no reason and without any explanation, while a thread is still alive is pretty weird.

The thing about being friends of friends to do anything is true when considering any administrative action on CM, whether it be whitelist applications, bans or appeals. But that’s how the real world works so I don’t see it as an issue.

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To be fair, this was prefaced by an explanation of why the thread was being closed, and I did find the cope to be very funny.

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I like the forums.

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