Full-merge IFF change.

I liked it, wasn’t lore accurate (the bullets do go around people) but I liked it. Buff SG damage to 40, add in a 5th SG slot (echo or smthng) and we call it a day.

2 Likes

Its bad.

Having been able to try the IFF change on the smartgunner myself i will admit that the IFF changes aren’t bad… until you start fighting in 2 tile corridors or in a hell choke.
While in a at least semi open enviroment that allows the marines to move its honestly… fine.
While in a chokehold of a few tiles, as is common practice on maps like solaris ridge etc. it is however just a whole loot of beeps.
Smartgunners initially seemed to be intended as a squad support role, adding pushing power and covering retreats from behind the frontlining non-iff marines. this playstlye effectively is null and void now.
There is an argument to be made that many smartgunners would frontline anyways and will feel little impact but i will not get into this as i never saw it as the “intended” playstyle.

Overall for the smartgunner this change could be workable, damage numbers would need to be looked into as even with the +6 damage a freefiring smartgunner feels plenty oppressive, able to tear praes and t2s apart from relative safety.

However, the big loser in this PR are the other guns. mainly the smart pistol, which lost any and all reason to even exist aswell as the B8 M4RA.
Especially with the M4RA this is painful as it is the weapon that i, and probably many others, recommend to new players. it allows them to practice clicking sprites and feel like they are actually doing something without causing damage to other players while they’re still learning the ins and outs of the game. The new IFF basically means they will spend a significant time in their first rounds doing… nothing.
I understand there is an argument to be made about learning to shoot properly without IFF but it still makes their early experience less entertaining, a time that is crucial to have frustrations mitigated in order to have more people actually stick to playing the game.

Thats my opinion on the matter anyways, for whatever its worth

2 Likes

all it makes SGs be point men which they shouldn’t be

edit: this also just lets runners or huggers run in to the marine line and no be lit up from 3 SGs

As much as I’m open to metaplay changes, the IFF change only works if you rework the entire way the marine gameplay cycle works, especially forcing marines into a murderball to be effective. They simply do not work as pointmen; it makes them prime targets for warriors.

I don’t like it either but I don’t see how it needs a “complete rework of the entire marine gameplay cycle”, All it does is move the smartgunners from the back of the line to the front of the line

And also makes smartscope and smartpistol completely and utterly useless

Old IFF especially forces marines into a murderball to be effective. Because stacking IFF is that powerful.

All these are simply misconceptions. Are you implying that every man without old IFF is a pointman? If you grab a M4RA (no smart-scope) are you a pointman? Probably not. If you have a HPR, are you necessarily a pointman? You are not forced to be on the front to use new IFF. You can easily be in a second line or on a flank (probably even more effective). Yeah your shots will be blocked sometimes, but you still can provide decent fire support. There is never a solid wall of marines infront of you, unless there is a 3-tile choke, but that’s another story.

That’s also not true. Even if we ignore damage buffs (previously you needed to land an entire smartpistol mag to crit a runner), this still gives you the ability to shoot without fear of FF. You can freely shoot runners fishing for FF, you can provide fire support, you can larp as a marksman (again, without fear of FF). Smart-scope is very useful, way more than it was with 20% damage reduction.

Or it will help them to learn firelanes, instead of just clicking sprites from behind. New smart-scope is a way superior option for a new player to learn the game. And it can be used by more experienced players as well, because damage reduction doesn’t turn it into a joke.

IFF stacking and murderballing was also never intended, according to staff members and various devs, so it is what it is.

All these are simply misconceptions. Are you implying that every man without old IFF is a pointman? If you grab a M4RA (no smart-scope) are you a pointman? Probably not. If you have a HPR, are you necessarily a pointman? You are not forced to be on the front to use new IFF. You can easily be in a second line or on a flank (probably even more effective). Yeah your shots will be blocked sometimes, but you still can provide decent fire support. There is never a solid wall of marines infront of you, unless there is a 3-tile choke, but that’s another story.

You are most certainly forced to be closer to the front to use it, defeating the whole point of it being a scope. It is now worthless in sieges as you can no longer shoot behind people defending the cades. SGs will also often miss out on full-auto if they’re being blocked every couple seconds, meaning yes, they will have to move to the front to take full advantage of their full-auto.

Or it will help them to learn firelanes, instead of just clicking sprites from behind. New smart-scope is a way superior option for a new player to learn the game. And it can be used by more experienced players as well, because damage reduction doesn’t turn it into a joke.

It ruins the experience of actually SHOOTING though. Majority of new people just want to shoot stuff and as previously mentioned, feel like they’re helping. Now the private will see people in the way and have to move closer to the front, putting him at a higher risk of being grabbed.

I find new iff changes funny.sg become a less lethal rifleman but can be in a fight longer.any iff weapons become kinda pointless to none iff weapons.funny chokes as NEW sg lead to your death Very quick as well as a lesser drone entering a group of marines VERY funny.

8/10 changes please merge

Forgot to add new sg can turn off his iff to get more damage(I think)
Hate the one hour SLOWDOWN. to the post below mine
Yes and no
Short range in cqc yeah it is but the bullet spread kinda fucks it over to any medium range or long range.(or I am just useing sg wrong smh)
Dose pair well with grabbing a m41a off the ground on burst(it frags)
Forgot to add the m41a SHOOTS faster on burst then a sg gun.hella funny(or I am high)

Meanwhile all other scopes don’t have IFF whatsoever, and that doesn’t defeat their purpose :expressionless:
You still can shoot, just you need to look for openings and position yourself better. It’s not that hard, I did play with smart-scope during the TM.

That’s true, but that’s about trade-offs. You can take more careful approach and lose some of your DPS, or you can move closer, but risk getting grabbed. Again, not to mention the damage buff.

As a person who used smart-scope to learn the game I understand what you are saying. But again, you only learn to click sprites, while you also need to learn firelanes so you won’t FF your allies when you get to use actual weapons. And again, you still can use the smart-scope from behind. And I do believe it provides you a better grasp of the game, than a 0 damage pea shooter with magic bullets.

Actually new SG gets slightly better DPS than M41A.

What was the last time you saw somebody actually use any of the other magnification scopes?

My general strat as a SG post-IFF change is to hang in the midline and provide support fire through open firing lanes, as well as help punish xenos who jump out and stun marines or other things, as well as generally harassing far off xenos in the dark or calling out flankers

so, less direct firepower more support fire, not a bad thing but a big change

we’re so used to SG doing 1 thing for the last decade that its going to be hard to change its implementation no matter what

This is also true. And why doesn’t anyone use scopes? Because the risk of hitting a friendly is too high, you will not be able to track the line of fire if it is longer than 7 tiles. But with new IFF, you don’t have that risk, making the smart-scope very viable.

Old smart-scope wasn’t really viable because both damage and RoF reduction turned it into trash. Now that you only lose RoF, it’s kinda okay. The only problem here is that M4RA isn’t in very good shape right now, but that’s out of the scope.

Murderballing would be the most effective strategy regardless of IFF, simply due to health and generally tighter xeno cohesion. Xenos can get away with fighting one on one a lot more compared to marines, and when the xenos murderball themselves, you need multiple squads to counter them.

You will see murderballs until with or without smartguns until that situation is resolved. All the change did was make the smartguns go to the front to be easily sniped.

You don’t because there is such thing as the front width. There is only so many marines who can shoot at the same time in a choke. And only so many xenos who can fight back at the same time. This is why game usually (and should) splits into different flanks. Like on LV people usually fight in west caves, central caves and east caves at the same time. But some mechanics (such as IFF stacking) encourages players to throw everything into a single spot (i.e. murderball).

But even so, murderball is not the only reason to change IFF. It’s a flawed mechanic as it is. It’s both too weak and too strong. It’s too weak because you have to make every gun with old IFF weak, so stacking won’t be so powerful, which led to every single gun with IFF being extremely weak on it’s own. Smartgun is a peashooter, and smart-scope is a joke. Smartpistol does literally 0 damage and you need to land a full mag to crit a base runner. And at the same time, this mechanic is too strong, because you can stack enough IFF to shred everything to pieces. Like you used to be able to stack sentry guns together, so they could deal insane amount of DPS (no wonder it was nerfed eventually, right?). So we are in a paradoxical situation. We cannot nerf smartgun (as someone proposed as an alternative to this) because it’s already too weak. And we cannot buff smartgun because it’s potentially too strong if you have several smartgunners together. Something definitely has to be done to leave this spot and I cannot think of a better solution. We cannot really just go sentry gun way and forbid smartgunners from shooting when they are too close to each other.

Well, I am sure they will learn eventually to not get sniped. Again, you can play carefully, you can stay in the second line. You don’t have to lead the charge, as you don’t have to lead the charge with every other weapon such as M41A. This is a completely made up issue. I got to play SG once during the TM (it was not easy to roll sadly) and I did quite good staying in the second line and providing fire support. I didn’t have to be on the front. More than that, marines were actively trying to not close my line of fire. It felt to me like actual teamplay, rather than playing a walking sentry gun.

could someone post what this IFF change actually was? OP assumes everyone knows what they’re talking about

Instead of your bullets going through teammates, you literally could not shoot at all if there was someone in front of you.

You don’t because there is such thing as the front width. There is only so many marines who can shoot at the same time in a choke

Either you’re trolling with this, or you haven’t seen a condensed siege or push. It is entirely possible to fight in closed quarters, so I don’t see what you’re trying to get at here.

thanks for posting this