Harrysno - Player Report: William “Jester” Crimson , Rule 3 - Community Expectations, Rule 4 - No Griefing, Rule 11 - Marine Law, Mutinies

Harrysno - Player Report: William “Jester” Crimson , Rule 3 - Community Expectations, Rule 4 - No Griefing, Rule 11 - Marine Law, Mutinies

What’s your BYOND key?

Harrysno

Round ID:

27664

Your character name:

Michael ‘Ponyboy’ Calhoun

Accused character name:

William “Jester” Crimson

What rule(s) were broken?:

Rule 3 - Community Expectations, Rule 4 - No Griefing, Rule 11 - Marine Law, Mutinies

Description of the incident:

So, I was a latejoin CO during this round which means I was not directly witness to whatever briefing bullshit happened to kick off the shitshow MP situation that I was present for. However, in speaking to people across the length of the round - including MPs, the SEA, the XO, other CIC staff, and various marines - I believe Crimson’s actions were a gross over-escalation of what is reasonably expected from MPs, resulting in the malicious application of various ML charges to punish people for mundane behavior and dickishly grief people’s rounds.

As was described to me, at various points during briefing marines were engaging in the standard silly shit that has come to characterize most rounds: bumping people around, tossing small items at one another, and other forms of harmless banter that nobody in CIC had taken issue with. At some point Crimson took it upon himself to, and I quote, “make an example” of a marine because they were espousing standard anti-MP rhetoric like “fuck MPs” and “I hate the CMP.” This escalated into an attempted dropship arrest of that marine and multiple others that he had marked for the standard banter outlined above. When that did not go well he had assigned several of them, and several more, additional charges like assault and interference for bumping into him or otherwise “obstructing” the arrest in the overcrowded dropship that he had (to my knowledge) came in guns blazing on to perform an arrest. Also of note is that one of these marines were to be charged with murder/attempted murder for a firing a single shot on the Alamo that I am not entirely sure hit a single person.

Normally that would be where the situation ends, a “funny haha MPs suck” moment. But instead Crimson ordered four separate MPs, at least one of which was a first-time Cpl, to deploy to the ground and perform arrests on somewhere in the range of 8 separate people. To the best of my knowledge the CIC was not informed of this development, nor did any CIC staff order the arrest of any individual involved in the so-called “briefing shenanigans.” It is at this point that I latejoin and my CIC informs me that marines were being pushed back to the area surrounding the FOB and the FOB-adjacent comms tower. At no point did any MP attempt to inform me, as Commander, that MPs were on the ground attempting to perform eight separate field arrests in what was approaching a FOB siege.

At some point a member of my CIC staff pointed out that, to our collective surprise, there were multiple MPs outside of the FOB and actively deployed on the ground. When prompted on MP comms as to why this was the case, Crimson portrayed it as an active training exercise for the new MPs to gain experience performing field arrests. It took several more questions for him to inform me of even a single charge against a single individual while repeatedly expressing some mixture of anger and frustration with me for even asking these questions in the first place. I, at this point, ordered all MPs to return to the Almayer and cease their “training exercise” during an active combat operation, which Crimson expressed disagreement with while simultaneously ignoring the order.

The MPs remained on the ground despite me ordering Crimson to facilitate their return, meanwhile the deployed MPs were actively tasing marines at one of the comms towers that was being assaulted by xenos and actively attempting to arrest people in the FOB while the Queen was breaching it on the Western Side. At this point I still did not have reasons for 6/8 of the marines that Crimson had marked and it was clear that he had no intention to actually facilitate the MP’s return as I had ordered. I then sent out a command announcement demanding all MPs return to the Almayer and report to the CIC as soon as they had, followed shortly after by a provost announcement mirroring my order. I then received a fax from the provost informing me that they had requested the reasons for the arrest of the marked marines from Crimson similarly to how I had, and that they too had not received any response.

Once the MPs had returned to the Almayer and arrived at CIC, shortly after a brief stint with a shipside runner, I began questioning them as to what they were thinking and what reasons they had for interfering so brazenly in groundside operations. It was during this conversation that Crimson expressed his desire to “make an example” of the marines, something I believe to go wildly against the spirit of the law and factor into his malicious compliance with ML’s wording to order the arrests of as many people as possible. I interviewed a few more MPs and the SEA who had informed me that they expressed apprehension and disagreement with Crimson’s orders, but seeing as they are bound by ML and the Chain of Command to listen to his orders I did not feel it appropriate to report any of them. Before I could come to a decision on the whole situation, the FOB had to be evacuated and hijack shortly followed - prompting this report instead of an in character solution.

Overall, I believe Crimson’s actions in this round to be in incredibly bad faith, resembling malicious compliance with Marine Law rather than the application of it to prevent grief, create meaningful and inclusive roleplay, or handle bad actors in an in-character manner. It more closely resembled griefing of several individual players and attempts to shut down RP and interactions that he disagreed with.

Evidence:

As I had originally intended to handle this in-character I didn’t collect any evidence in round, so I suppose logs will have to suffice.

10 Likes

Greetings,
I was not directly involved in this, but I’ve taken prtsc of what started it all – Because I found it very funny as to how he was “baiting” people.

Crimson, every round or so, stands outside the dropship awaiting a single bad comment so he can burst inside and spam tasers/flashbangs, which of course leads to several arrests and a shitstorm both for CIC and the overall enjoyment of the round.

This was one of the cases, as below:
image

As Crimson sat ouside the DS, keeping doors open to do the same bad faith gimmick as he always does, this marine made this comment of “Smell wafting in” but did not directly point to him or anything of sorts.

Crimson then did the following:
image
image

And proceeded to spam tasers and pepperspray inside the DS, which led to several people complaining (as they should) in radio, he then marked all of them to arrest and deployed a GIGANTIC taskforce to FOB, while FOB was under siege.

If this isn’t just bad faith/griefing behaviour I really don’t know what it is.

EDIT: His answer goes completely against the stated here, and I hope admins prove this through logs.

10 Likes

Hi,

I played this round and watched the MPs groundside for a bit. What I saw was a trio of MPs running up to the front trying to catch a charlie there.

Artistic representation of events
Red - MPs
Green - Cades
Yellow - Me
Pink - Charlie

Will note. One of the MPs got PBd by two times.

Edit: Straightened up some since my short time memory isn’t as good as i thought. Thanks @Primalis

3 Likes

Another testimony.

Hey, my character is Randy Pratt, and I was the SEA of that round (coincidentally the guy who plabbed ponyboy in the chest with .44)

Now…another repeat of a shitshow.

I can’t really say much, as most of what I’ve witnessed has already been mentioned, but I feel like giving what I’ve saw.

CMP decides it’d be wise to deploy…what, 3, 4 MPs to groundside, one of them being a NEW marker corporal MP, which if you ask me, isn’t the best combo.

I voiced my dissatisfaction with the CMP, but, as an NCO (SNCO by logic) I could not do much other than let him do it.

Later on, the CO, in this case, Lieutenant Colonel Calhoun arrives, and he’s flooded with the shitstorm of MPs allegedly “tasing people on communications” and it becomes a whole drama where the CMP, and all the MPs who got deployed get involved.

I did not attend briefing long enough to witness what happened, but apparently it drove the MP department on an arresting-spree, marking like 8 people for arrest.

3 Likes
23 Likes

Greetings. I was Delta SL Aldrik Wynters this round.

At one point, the MP’s had arrested a Alpha CT who to my knowledge was bleeding out and heavily wounded in the middle of a FOB Siege, and when I asked WHY they were doing this, they said, and I quote “Because we can.”
I then tried to raise this issue on command channel, and nothing got really done about it (granted it was a whole fucking mess.)
I will also state that it was then put out in LRC that this Alpha CT was ACTIVELY working on coms when MP’s arrested him.

5 Likes

I’ve had to have a little bit of fun with writing this because, there are so many incorrect statements in here which I need to correct, that I may as well have a little fun with it so you haven’t just completely wasted both of our times.

1. I wasn’t arresting marines for “standard banter.”
The people I marked were those who physically shoved me or escalated the situation in the dropship, disarming me and so on. The original marine who was marked made multiple insults at me, in my presence and another told others to “stab me.” That’s where the line is drawn. Comments like “MPs suck” got ignored. But if someone’s trying to stir the pot right in front of the CMP or any commissioned officer, for that matter, yeah, they’re getting the chefs special.

2. “He wouldn’t give the charges!” Except, I literally did, immediately.
You asked once. I started listing names and charges. You cut me off. I clarified there were multiple warrants, then went off to prepare a full written report (as requested by the XO and yourself), which included each charge, context, and a cover letter. That was sent to both you and the Provost.

3. “He wanted to make an example of the marines!” Actually, no. It was one marine putting on a show, thinking he’d be immune to consequences.
Nope. I said I wanted to make an example of a marine. Singular. One marine who was pushing his luck. That’s called accountability on a MRP server, if someone is insulting the CO, they’re treated the same. Its about the rank, not the man. I even told you that I ignored a bunch of other smaller offences because they weren’t worth acting on. That context conveniently went missing in your post.

4. I wasn’t frustrated with you
I was roleplaying a Crimson doing his job while being questioned by a guy who just woke up late and furious with a situation he wasn’t fully aware of.
Crimson’s a by-the-book, clipboard-toting, zero-humour Lawman™, its where the nickname comes from. That’s the character. I wasn’t angry, even remotely, I was busy writing arrest reports. You joined mid-storm and assumed I was plotting the next Geneva violation. If anything, I found it amusing with all the mountains of paperwork and evidence I had at hand.

5. CMPs don’t need CO permission to send MPs groundside. That’s a feature, not a bug.
This wasn’t some secret MPcord shadow-council conspiracy, I said it over comms. SEA knew, MPs knew, a random MT with stolen comms probably knew. Alan Jones, a veteran MP, led the team. I wasn’t sending toddlers into battle, I was sending people to learn field arrests under supervision of one of the oldest and experienced MP players still around.

6. MPs were recalled when ordered.
Alan Jones was leading the team, he’s experienced, competent, and knew the drill, you ordered them to return. He called me to update me on the situation, I told them to return. They did. Two MPs were scheduled to rotate back up, and we still had a Warden, another MP, and me onboard. It’s not like I emptied the brig to go LARP in the jungle with predators. They were on the field, I was doing paperwork.

7. If a new MP messed up, its unfortunate, but its a learning moment, not a sign he’s my sleeper agent activated to wipe the FOB for behalf of the MP_Mafia.
If we start holding department heads responsible every time a rookie makes a mistake despite being trained and supervised, we’d have no staff or leadership roles. Do we stop giving grenades to new marines? Do we not let newer doctors so surgery? This is how people learn. MPs don’t have overwatch tools or training tools, something I’ve pushed for years and even mentioned in LOOC, may I add, so shadowing vets in the field is standard.

Also, side note: Everyone detained after hijack got released, except the guy who murdered an MP. I know that’s shocking, but yeah, we tend to not release murderers from the brig.

So to summarise:

No, this wasn’t griefing.

No, it wasn’t malicious compliance.

No, I cannot control other players through my alleged sleeper agent loyalty implants.

Marking people for arrest for crimes and enforcing marine law is part of the Chief Military Police Role. Field Arrests are part of that role and people got to learn

35 Likes

Also additional testimony here,

MP deployment was done according to the guidelines provided.

No arrest was made outside the FOB.

One CT we found bleeding out right outside comms, when the frontline was way north of it. We got him to a medic, brought him to the dropship, treated him on board the dropship.

We are marines first, and then MPs second.

It was only after we got him treated, stable and safe in the dropship, that we arrested him, brought him to shipside and into surgery.

The other attempted arrest, is the one described here, you can see it in the video. The MP was shot by buckshot from an unrelated person, just cause. At that moment you see me coming up to the dead MP and bringing them back. I did not retaliate against the person so to not disrupt things planet-side as well.

We returned to the Dropship. I called the CMP to report developments, who then informed us to head up immediately. And we did.

To the contrary, I remember asking a question with my character inRP. “Did we do something wrong?” To which a clear response was never given as we never did anything that goes against any sort of provision given by marine law.

I understand it can be frustrating to deal with this as a CO, but I think instead of holding a lecture with us it could’ve been a bit more productive to communicate with the CMP directly.

Just tell the CMP/MPs to cease such activity and exercise your authority as given within marine law to cancel or pardon the crimes. If you believe these people are not an issue and are well-behaved, you can actually stand in for them and take the risk for that.

And in the end of the day, there was zero disruption of the marines activity in the FOB. No marine lives were risked, no problems were caused, and no hindering to the FOB was done at all. Even after an MP was PBed, our contigent did not retaliate in the field, but handled things quietly.

And for the record? That rookie MP? Zack? He did fantastic. Great guy. Popped his cherry.

The rest of us were more experienced. I took the lead as being the most experienced. Contingent was split in two officers doing arrests and two escorting the arrested personnel. I managed to get a very good level of organization and control. It was not as chaotic as you’d like to imagine.

Compared to that, what is then the best combo according to you?

6 Likes

I was the MP that got PB to death. Rolland Mallon
This was my 2nd time doing groundside field arrests. Stayed inside the fob area or the SW side of comms and didn,t go outside of comms safety and retreated once told so. Before i got killed i saw the person that was wanted in alamo. Once i saw them i attempted to tell them to stop so i could tell them that they were arrested ect… but they ran instantly. I chased them and did use the taser. (I do admit that wasn,t the smartest idea and is somethink i will just avoid using at all in the future for field arests if there are so many marines around and xenos are probing the fob. Honestly should have let the man go and not chased at all) I did manage to catch them while they were still in fob but got killed by a random marine. Didn,t see hostiles in vicinity but that rule in marine law doesn,t exactly explain how far the hostiles need to be before i need to back off. But the arrest was probably made too close to the front.
Also the marine that killed me was peacefull and let me arrest them once they were evacuated.

6 Likes

I was a witness to these events.

In short I did not think Crimson did anything wrong in regard to marine law or SOP. As I was observing the entire situation I cannot point out an specific incident in that regard. What I did see an issue in is how the MPs behaved ground side.

My issue is that the MPs made an arrest inside the FOB while the FOB was under siege. As you can argue that the FOB is not secure any more and isn’t a safe area. The other issue I have is more of a leadership issue as I will argue that the CMP is somewhat responsible for the action of the mps groundside. You didn’t make an order to the MPs when the fob was under siege to tell them to go back.

3 Likes

For the records, when comms went down and FOB came under siege we were not perfomring anymore arrests, and focused our attention in making sure the Alamo was safe from all entrances.

An order to go back was given by the CMP when I made a call to the brig to report the situation after the first arrest was made and the MP was shot and comms went down.

3 Likes

I’d encourage posters to keep the memes to an appropriate minimum.

This report will likely take me several days to parse through to get the facts. Additional posts from witnesses are appreciated, but please stick to facts, not responding to other people’s posts.

6 Likes

Hello all relevant stakeholders.

I will be denying this report.


My TL;DR rational is that William Crimson did not break any server rules during their tenure as Chief MP this round. Furthermore, I have concluded none of the deployed MPs broke any server rules whilst deployed.


My in-depth reasoning for this decision is as follows.

Pre-Drop Alamo Incident

Crimson was standing near the Dropship before deployment. At this point many Marines began hurling insults towards Crimson. Crimson only reacted after a single Marine stated the following towards them.

“Anyone smell pig shit come in through door?”, “Shut door, you stink up dropship!”, “Keep door shut.” and “Smell wafting in”.

After this, Crimson announces they are detaining this Marine for DASO. During this, a minimum of five (5) marines begins attacking Crimson without cause. (Logs don’t track if people do non-attack actions such as shaking a stunned person or bodyblocking someone so there were likely more)

Crimson withdraws with minimal force, albeit another MP does deploy more excessive gear but this was justified from my research due to the massive amount of combat occurring.

Field Deployment

Crimson authorizes four MPs to deploy to the FOB for field work after they spend time writing a report in the security records for all personnel who were to be arrested, about 8 marines in total.

Of the four Marines, all of them are experienced players, however one of them was a new MP player.

The MPs were deployed to the FOB at the ~40 minute mark, from my research the FOB was not under siege when they deployed the FOB came under siege ~10 minutes after they deployed, give or take. The MPs redeployed to the Almayer about 10 to 20 minutes after they had deployed.

While at the FOB, the MPs spend their entire deployment cycle within the secure area of the FOB. The MPs had detained a single Marine, who was KIA.

I will note one of the MPs was griefed by another player, being shot with 2 pointblank shotgun blasts. This incident was resolved via admin intervention at the time.

I will also note that according to sources, one or two of the MPs did leave the FOB to travel to a nearby comm array location, however this comms array would be within 10 to 20 tiles of the FOB, I can not ascertain if this location is still considered “secure” but since it was directly adjacent to the FOB, I won’t action this.

CO Arrives

After the CO arrives and orders Crimson to redeploy the MPs to the Almayer, I can track that the CMP complies with this order in due course.

Comms was offline, the CMP sends the order via telephone, this occurs in <5 minutes after the CO issues the order to the CMP. My logs indicate the CMP was also doing paperwork in preparation to obey the second CO order to print a list of all the people who were to be detained.

Conclusion

From my research, and consultation with other staff, I can find that Crimson did not break any server rules or marine law during their time as a CMP.

Furthermore, my research of all field deployed MPs finds none of them broke server rules or marine law during their field deployment. With in fact one of them being a victim of a griefer.

My research has seemingly found that a lot of the disgruntlement with the MPs appears to be derived from hearsay and a lack of full context of the situation, as a example, several Marines presumed the MPs were doing field arrests during a FOB siege, however such declarations were made while the MPs were either withdrawing, or rendering first aid to injured Marines.


As a final word to the accused party, SoildFury, I would encourage you to follow the age old adage of, “discretion is the better part of valor”. Posting memes in your defense testimony has done you no favors and it is self evident your reputation precedes you in a negative fashion in-game.

In my decade plus time of playing the role of Security in SS13, I can say that whilst you may be in a situation where you are correct in your application of the in-game rules, this does not mean you have the moral high ground. In this player report, I can find no evidence of wrongdoing, but I doubt this will last without some discretion on your part.

No action is being taken. Thank you everyone for your witness testimonies.

20 Likes