Helmet Sight Redesign

[NervanCatos]

I am looking for ideas and thoughts for redesigning the Helmet Optics/Visors to be more user friendly. I started off this adventure wanting to add a targeting reticle to the default squad optic, but I quickly realized how half-baked the implementation of this feature was.

One of the main problems with the current implementation is that the Squad Visor is the default, which vast majority of users skip over and find annoying since the headset provides the same functionality. This led to PR #5600 which effectively removes the squad optic. This tells me that the feature is so annoying there was a dedicated PR to basically remove it. Also dont get me started on how NVGs work now.

The helmet visors are based off of the Infrared Sights found in lore, so first order of business will be renaming everything to Helmet Sight.

My initial redesign idea was to make the helmet sight more alike to the radio headset, meaning it is one item that can have plugins. That got shot down by the maintainers. It was a dumb idea anyways.

My second, and current, idea is to reuse the current assets (with the lore accurate renaming) and make it to where:

1. Squad HUD functionality and Targeting Reticle are a toggleable action that is always available regardless of the currently selected sight. This can be toggled either through a menu, hotkey, or other functionality.
2. Once a speciality sight is attached (i.e. medical or nvgs) it replaces the “default” generic sight. So no need to toggle through several sights
3. Add hotkey functionality to toggle to the exact HUD you want active. The current action button will only toggle the sight completely on or off.
4. Delete the welder sight, because I have a personal vendetta against it
5. Profit

Thoughts? Input? Ideas?

[Steelpoint]

I don’t really get what you are aiming to change, especially since that linked PR pretty much removed the squad visor.

But my two thoughts

• Night vision optics need to be changed. Either a full on revert to the previous night vision goggles, or at least make night vision optics able to be broken by xenos, not work with sniper scopes/binocs, and be easier to recharge somehow (maybe you can just click on a APC to recharge it).

• I like the welding visor. It frees up my eye slot.

[birb]

I honestly think people sleep on the nvg optics

Rn they are in a very op state.
Because yeah, you can binoc through them. All it takes is 1 hotkey (switch active optics) to instantly enable and disable nvg optic.

Essentially makes ftl the best backline role lmao (mainly because nvg binocs)

[Steelpoint]

Getting off-topic but NVG optics are both overpowered and underpowered.

Overpowered due to, as we mentioned, their ability to use them with scopes and instantly able to flip it off and on. As well as the fact they are unbreakable.

Underpowered due to how quick it runs out of power and how hard it is to recharge, especially if you have no idea how to quickly flip them on and off, and don’t know about using scopes.

[NervanCatos]

I’m trying to redesign it so that it is more functional, less cumbersome to deal with, and more accessible for new additions in the future.

What about combining the HUD with the radio headset?

[PWNRA (A. A. 'Gramps' Silverton)]

the entire optics system is terrible and needs reversion to the old style.

[Hermotimos (Herman "Hermit" Timos)]

I liked the old NVGs a bit better just cause the battery recharge didn’t interrupt my gameplay as often.

[NervanCatos]

What is the old style? To my knowledge this was the first implementation of a helmet sight. Do you mean just getting welding goggles, medhud, etc from the vendor? What would you want to change with the current optics?

[Wintermote]

Most of the problems with helmet optics are bad UI

My issues:

• Relies on hotkeys for playability; it should be playable without them
• Switching optics needs to be easy and fast and isn’t currently (I should click once to flip welding visor or NVG up/down, not 6 times cycling thru everything I have)
• NVG’s should either go back to using normal batteries so you can carry spares on you, or they need a longer battery duration (and you put the whole helmet in the charger - important)

IMHO NVG’s they shouldn’t even need batteries at all because it’s a really hamfisted way to ‘balance’ them and is mostly just tedium and not actual balance but it seems like people are married to this idea of balance so w/e

What I would try doing:

• Sprites for NVG’s should stay on the helmet even when ‘off’ (Astute xeno players should be rewarded with information)
• Separate buttons for toggling each optic – Since that’s potentially a lot of UI space taken up, I would suggest 1 button of the current size in the top left of the HUD, but its split into 4 parts for each type of optic and the UI for each square turns green when on and grey when off. Yellow and Red could be used for battery charge on NVG’s
• NVG’s use batteries again

I attached a UI diagram to show what I mean with the HUD:

For hotkeys cycling optics, I’d have both the current functionality (cycles through each optic), and each individual type done with some kind of function modifier like ctrl+hotkey 1, ctrl+hotkey 2, etc. With the former having a preset default and the latter something left up to users.

We used to be able to use multiple optics at the same time (e.g. NVG and MedHUD), we can’t now because of the way cycling through the optics works. I don’t really care about it, but if we’re trying to return functionality we used to have that’s another thing that can go either way with the grid UI thing above.

[Plumlley (Bryson Mingle)]

i think the NVGs are in a good state overall due to how limited they i do wish you could either install a new battery or just put the helmet on the recharger

[kooarbiter]

I like the crisp sound of turning on the light and then the squad hud, you can still turn squad hud on just take off your radio first and then put it back on.

[ihatethisengine]

@Wintermote

IMHO NVG’s they shouldn’t even need batteries at all because it’s a really hamfisted way to ‘balance’ them and is mostly just tedium and not actual balance but it seems like people are married to this idea of balance so w/e

Strong statement. How would you limit the uptime of a tool such as NVG (so you don’t just run with NVGs on 24/7) without using power or some other semi-limited resource? Why exactly this is “hamfisted”? Is ammunition a “hamfisted” way to emphatize inventory management and attrition?

[Wintermote]

• The absence of a need to recharge NVGs has not significantly impacted fighting specialists and smartgunners.
• The NVG’s are likewise heavily restricted options for a few jobs - most of whom are never going to operate alone and benefit little to nothing from NVG’s
• Prior to these alterations, NVGs had more uptime without resulting in any noticeable balance issues; these changes were unilaterally attached and applied out of scope onto a PR/idea that was originally just changing UI/sprites.
• Players with NVG’s are going to use them when they need them anyway, the actual impact when they’re used isn’t being changed and the actual effects on the field won’t be noticeable, it largely just makes it more obtuse and tedious to use NVG’s

This wasn’t ever a problem that needed resolving but some players jump at anything to give ‘their side’ an advantage in the increasingly political ‘development war’ of this game.

It’s why I tell people - if we didn’t have CAS or OB’s today, and someone made a PR to add them, it would be immediately closed by maintainers and thrown away for being “unbalanced”. There’s too much of that imo.

Most of the actual ‘balance’ problems the game has are actually frustration problems stemming from mechanics that aren’t fun, e.g. permatackles; and should be solved not by removal or inconvenience but through understanding the fundamental issues players have and accommodating for both sides, e.g. the PR to require marines be hurt first before they can be permatackled - which may or may not work adequately but does meaningfully impacts the situation and tries to find a solution that works better.

The absence of the need for batteries and the consistent 100% uptime of NVGs, in my view, introduces no substantial changes—only the removal of unnecessary tedium. The net effect at best is completely unnoticeable in normal gameplay - that a couple players will sometimes be off the frontline to recharge NVG’s instead of fighting - but frankly most of the frontline fighting is so oversaturated both with Line of Fire problems and tons of flares, you can’t use NVG’s effectively anyway, and the situations where NVG’s become useful - hivediving, flanking quickly, etc. in small groups, are rarely undertaken and again not meaningfully impacted by the introduction of tedium. Jobs that can make best use of NVG’s, like IO’s, are ALSO going to be making regular trips to fob.

There’s an obvious apparent appeal for recharging NVGs that I don’t understand: I don’t think addressing (imo perceived not real) balance issues by imposing the inconvenience of recharging actually addresses any balance issues. This seems entirely more geared towards inconveniencing players rather than genuinely balancing the game, and is reminiscent of the bone gel PR. Just extra tedium masquerading as such.

IMO a better option for meaningful balance is to further restrict NVG’s to jobs that actually need it, although again, I don’t think there’s an actual balance issue here. NVG’s are restricted enough, and only useful in niche applications vs their cost that most people frankly don’t buy them unless they are planning to do something extremely specific. In any given round I’d be willing to bet less than a quarter of the players who can buy NVG’s actually do. They’re not a must-have item, and while powerful, are only useful if you’re doing something inherently dangerous - fighting away from flares and allies.

[PWNRA (A. A. 'Gramps' Silverton)]

I.E. no helmet based sights save for the NVG. medhud was superior since it offered options beyond the helmet, and also if old and new style were combined one could have the option wearing a medhud and a welding sight for SLs (though the sight toggle cycle is absolute garbage - just remove “squad sight” since it does nothing but add a toggle cycle).

[ihatethisengine]

@Wintermote

• The absence of a need to recharge NVGs has not significantly impacted fighting specialists and smartgunners.

How exactly did you measure this? Of course constant night vision affecting fighting with specs and smartgunners by a lot. Sniper and scout couldn’t even exist without constant NVGs. And if you ever fought SGs as xeno or played SG you know how useful their NVGs for chasing.

@Wintermote

• The NVG’s are likewise heavily restricted options for a few jobs - most of whom are never going to operate alone and benefit little to nothing from NVG’s

You don’t need to go alone to benefit from NVGs. Of course NVGs excel against backliners, but you can use it anywhere is a lack of lighting. People use NVGs to detect warriors before they can lunge, for example.

@Wintermote

Prior to these alterations, NVGs had more uptime without resulting in any noticeable balance issues; these changes were unilaterally attached and applied out of scope onto a PR/idea that was originally just changing UI/sprites.

Here is a thing. I don’t want people to run NVGs 24/7. Neither I want them to go to FOB every 5 minutes. Recharging should be a nuisance that makes you to use NVGs smart, but it should not be such a pain like now.

@Wintermote

Players with NVG’s are going to use them when they need them anyway, the actual impact when they’re used isn’t being changed and the actual effects on the field won’t be noticeable, it largely just makes it more obtuse and tedious to use NVG’s

Most weird take. It’s absolutely intended that player uses NVGs only when they need. You need thinking, you need planning, you need a sense of the game to use the NVGs at the right moment. If anything it makes the game more deep and engaging as opposed to “permanent NVGs”, where you just see in darkness and that’s it.

@Wintermote

It’s why I tell people - if we didn’t have CAS or OB’s today, and someone made a PR to add them, it would be immediately closed by maintainers and thrown away for being “unbalanced”. There’s too much of that imo.

With this I totally agree.

@Wintermote

The absence of the need for batteries and the consistent 100% uptime of NVGs, in my view, introduces no substantial changes—only the removal of unnecessary tedium.

Do you consider basic equipment management “tedium”? Treat NVGs charge as ammunition, if that makes sense to you.

@Wintermote

There’s an obvious apparent appeal for recharging NVGs that I don’t understand: I don’t think addressing (imo perceived not real) balance issues by imposing the inconvenience of recharging actually addresses any balance issues.

First of all, this is not just about balance. As I mentioned, it adds more thought to gameplay. But it does affect balance anyway. Having NVGs 20% of the time is weaker than using NVGs 100% of the time. You can catch person who turned off their NVGs to preserve power by surprise. You cannot catch by surprise in the same manner someone who has NVGs 100% of the time.

@Wintermote

only useful if you’re doing something inherently dangerous - fighting away from flares and allies.

Again, this is not entirely true. You don’t have to fight solo away from allies to capitalize on NVGs. In case you don’t know, xenos don’t have tools to see off-screen. Only way to predict that there is a marine moving in your direction before the marine appears on your screen is the marine’s armor light. You see the light, you know someone is moving to you. With NVGs there is no moving light, so you can catch xenos by surprise. This is a real tactic that is used by robust players with NVGs.

tl;dr I think NVGs absolutely need charge to make their uptime not 100%. But I don’t think we need such a major downtime as having to go to FOB every 10 minutes, this is obviously too much. I prefer old version where you could trade inventory space for spare batteries. IMO it worked perfectly and I have no idea why exactly Morrow changed it. If he thought NVGs were too powerful, why did he make them stronger by allowing usage with binos and removing breaking mechanic?