How to fix Hijack

So I think most people would agree that hijack is generally not a very enjoyable portion of the round, and I’d go as far as to say many people neither understand its mechanics, nor care about it. So instead of a desperate last stand/escape, it’s more “run around like your head’s cut off until the xenos slash you into a million pieces”. I also think that win conditions (marine major, xeno minor, draw, etc.) are confusing and could use a redesign.

So, I have a whole pile of partially formed ideas that I’d love to get feedback on, and maybe collectively we can put something together that would make hijack more fun.

So the first problem is that xeno minors and draws just don’t make sense. As of right now, if marines kill all the xenos aboard the Almayer and survive, its a xeno minor. But if they kill all the xenos aboard the ship with self-destruct AND kill themselves, its a draw. In both cases all the xenos die, but when the marines kill themselves in the process its better? This just straight-up does not make sense. Either the two should be switched, (so SD is xeno minor and xeno wipe is a draw) or SD should remain as a draw and marines wiping aboard the Almayer should be a marine minor. This incentivizes what marines usually do anyway, which is fighting back. Self-destruct should be a last resort when fighting back is hopeless.

On that note, self-destruct also needs to be made way easier. As of right now, it’s basically a gimmick, almost never seen unless xenos are extraordinarily bald or marines could wipe anyway. IMO fuelling should be sped way up, and perhaps there are other changes that could make it easier. Bringing back anchorable cades might also help.

No matter what is changed, though, there will always be rounds where hijack will just be awful. There are fourty xenos on the ground, the Alamo never managed to launch, etc. For these cases, I suggest adding a new button to the command tablet and the bubble. This would be the “fly the fuck outta here button”. In universe, we’re obviously all located on a ship. Ships fly. When the operation is clearly FUBAR, any competent commander would send the ship off. This would be a xeno major, would bypass hijack, and would prevent the annoying slog of hunting down doctors and MTs one by one on the Almayer.

Finally, I think the last problem with hijack is that escaping isn’t rewarding. For all intents and purposes, 50 marines escaping on boats and escape pods is identical to 50 marines being brutally slaughtered or captured and used to birth larva. IC this doesn’t exactly make sense, and OOC it doesn’t really reward marines when they make a brilliant and daring escape. So I suggest changing xeno minor/major to be based upon the number of escaping marines. Perhaps if 40% of Almayer personnel survive and escape on either boats or escape pods then xenos only receive a xeno minor, instead of xeno major. That way, when all else has failed, a successful evacuation is still somewhat rewarding. Obviously xenos won the round, but the Almayer’s crew lives to fight another day. I have no idea what this percentage should realistically be, might require testing.

In conclusion, I think that some or all of these ideas would drastically improve the quality of hijack, and would also make marines a lot more comfortable with losing. As it is right now, as soon as the evac call is made you know you’re in for up to half an hour of bullshit followed by a xeno major. You lost, so everything is unfulfilling and a little bit sad. This way, even if marines are regularly losing on the ground (especially with double-burst) they still have something to fight for, and depending on the circumstances they can lose less.

Edit:

Oh and the last thing I forgot to mention, is that regardless of any changes, there oughta be a wiki page dedicated to hijack. Nothing is explained anywhere and I think that adds to the general chaos and discontent.

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by removing it

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I mean, staff have said that no matter what it’s not getting removed. This way, hijack is only played on rounds where there’s an incentive for it, shitty hijack will always be skipped.

Make it really fast paced. Remove pumps boats and refueling. Just make everyone scramble for a pod. Make it frantic. We don’t need a FOblB siege #2. Add non stop sirens for extra effect. Kind of like when Ripley initiated self destruct. That would up the pace a lil

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It does not matter if the game is a Xeno Minor, Major, Draw or whatever. Most people are not even aware of the difference. All that really matters to most players is who is the last faction standing. Marines defeating the Xenos on hijack may as well be a Marine Major.

SD as it stands is basically akin to the groundside Nuke. Intended to force any remaining Xenos to actually fight the Marines instead of hiding, assuming the Marines . Otherwise yes, it is a gimmick.

Yes.

The best case scenario for a hijack rework would be to let the Xenomorphs control if they do or do not hijack. I doubt the Marines will ever be allowed to have a say. This is my opinion but its a opinion formed from years of experience with how this song and dance will go.

As above, major/minor is a useless metric, it depends on who is the last faction standing.

Best solution for hijack is gutting it and making it a rare event.

The most likely change to hijack will be a very minor change that does nothing to change the concept, maybe it will speed it up by a few minutes.

This would be fine

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In hijack marines just enter fob number 2 and camp til the end. Xenos die bashing their heads against the defenses, and marines finally either lifeboat/pod or killed enough xenos at fob 2 for them to clear the ship. From xeno side it feels like you can never just drain them of ammo or supplies.

Barricade and turret removal stopped the 20 min long camping, but marines still get to camp at brief, or hangar, or lower engi, etc… The problem is the camping. One of the best hijacks the marines moved as a group to escape the xenos from their briefing hold to go through maints and to lower engi ERT and escape, which a few manged to do.

Let me just throw an idea at least on how to fix it. First remove SD: that is just a lower engi fob number 2 til you die or blow up. Also no matter what, after hijack is xeno major. Next up, the whole ship slowly explodes, with instant death fire (even queen) slowly taking over the ship, staring from brig/hangar. The xenos objective is to stop the marines from leaving the firey death ship. The marines objective is to pod or lifeboat away. The marines could waste time killing the xenos, but death is approaching and they got…some objectives to meet to unlock their escape from their firey death. For instance, they have to transport fuel from req to something near lifeboats, and how much depends on number of marines at the start of hijack. It can also be something like repairing and sending off pods 1 at a time with fixing APCs or other. That way marines also fight over the pods leaving first, or they are defending those who want to live from xenos.

edit for clarification: hijack continues even if all xenos are dead. Marines still have objectives to accomplish and got to pod/lifeboat out or be engulphed by the flames. Ends when all life is dead on the ship.

above suggestion is a case where xenos dont have to worry about them dying at hijack. All xenos will die anyway in that hijack eventually. The marines dont have to worry about fighting xenos or camping: they are frantically just trying to live. Should be a win-win for both sides.

Here’s a hijack proposition.

You know sudden death from Smash?

Each side has 1 minute before a ton of HEAP drops over them randomly. Not even the alamo or normandy are safe.

Depending on who is the last survivor, xeno major or xeno minor.

for legal reasons this is a joke

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personally I think Hijack would be improved by ERP being enabled the moment the hijack announcement is sent shipside

this means that the xenomorphs can come in and murder you while you spoon your blue haired medic

we can add a 50x50 dorms area with private dorms and allow the queen to specifically target the dorms to land on and murder everyone before they can get their clothes off

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This is the CM our synth council wants

:flushed_face:

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Headcannon for me why SD is a draw whereas marine wiping xenos during hijack is a xeno minor is because the SD is going to prevent the ship from ever being something more than shrapnel that burns up in the atmosphere. Whereas wiping out the xenos, the ship is going to crash largely intact on the planet again. Not to mention its more effort to SD vs wipe out all xenos so better reward if players cared about the win state.

I get the impression you haven’t seen FTL Hijack Objectives · Issue #45 · cmss13-devs/cm-roadmap · GitHub which seeks to mix up hijack and is basically already coded by Harry (I just need time to look it over and experiment with it which I haven’t had the time to do so). Its mostly a re-flavoring though.

Its very much intentionally chaotic - but anyone can contribute to the wiki too.

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I like how it directly goes against recent changes to basically prevent marines from defending anything by shipside cade nerf. And it does that by forcing marines to defend fuel pumps/SD while they are already on the backfoot, so they might intentionally evac earlier to have bigger chance at hijack. Something recognised to be a problem, hence shipside cade nerf.

We will be just going in circles with that.

I will use my crystal ball and within it I can see that this won’t change much, hijack will be more, or less the same. How does it fix the problem of hijack being fob siege 2.0 for xenos, since marines have to defend atleast two points of interest like they have to do planetside, which is transformer and comms?

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If you don’t know how to defend anything when your cades don’t anchor, you aren’t creative enough. The intention is to make hijack a chaotic situation where marines are on the backfoot.

Marines still lost if they tucked their tail and retreated to the ship only to find xenos manage to crash an entire ship into the hull to bring it back to the ground. Marines can only at that point do their best to salvage the situation.

FTL Hijack objectives is to give more options and more outcomes to hijack. If marines intentionally forfeit the round because they want to see how hijack plays out - sounds like we’ve solved the problem of hijack not being interesting.

Can’t really be a fob siege 2.0 when there isn’t a fob siege 1.0. Not to mention if the cades don’t anchor they aren’t as effective at what they normally do.

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I know how to do it, but cades are the best for the job and FTL hijack demands defending stuff from marines.

As mentioned by Steelpoint, nobody cares it technically means marines “lost”.

Those options will be:
Defend pumps (like marines already have to, but not solely).
Defend lifeboats (like marines already have to, but not solely).
Defend SD (like marines already could have to if they wanted).

That is why we go in circles.
What if we flipped the script? If marines were on the defensive and lost, what about them having to go on the offensive during hijack? Thrid maze-like Almayer layer most likely unaccessible before hijack, which holds an objective that xenos get first and have to defend.
That would be interesting. Marines sucked at defence, so they have to defend again? Boring.

Could be incorporated into the FTL as another objective as it is supposed to provide variety and it would give tactical decisions a boost, because it is up to marine and xeno command to decide how many units leave defending their objective and how many send out to damage the other faction’s.

Other than that lets wait and see.

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I can almost envision a sort of epilogue sequence where the Marines hastily dispatch a desperate last-grasp assault of some xenomorph hive core in special arena which occurs shortly after the marines evacuate, with all the xenomorphs being rapidly re positioned there to defend it as a alternative end-game event, a sort of suicide charge with no hope of escape even if the marines are successful.

Sort of like how Ripley storms the Atmo Processor to rescue Newt.

Reminds me of the finale of BSG, envisioning the Almayer making a desperate assault of a hivecore that sacrifices the ship and likely crew for a small chance of a small victory: https://youtu.be/Ie66Uf3PVM8?si=442bTmaDW1hah8uT

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Good idea. I love that show.

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Thanks for sharing! Those hijack objectives look really cool. I do really think that command needs to have some agency in picking an appropriate objective. So FTL vs. normal hijack vs. self-destruct adds player agency and will help short-cut the problem when the round result is already obvious.

I do think that there should really just be like two important locations to defend. Even groundside, when the marines have many many more advantages than shipside, they can barely hold onto two separate objectives. Holding onto four fuel pumps is never going to be realistic for marines. So whether this is a map redesign, or perhaps the objective should only require marines to pick two (again some player agency here as marines would have to coordinate) to hold would make it more fun.

Contrary to some people, I really don’t mind the cades change. What I do mind is hijack feeling pointless and just in the game for xenos to have fun stomping on marines as a reward for winning. That’s not particularly engaging and feels like a waste of time. Obviously it’s not the intent, and I’m really happy to hear that there are PRs to try to make it more engaging.

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How about instead of hijack where Xenos attack the Marines, instead it’s the Marines attacking the Xenos.

Crash the Almayer into a scaled down version of the ground map, teleport xenos to a new hivecore, spawn in a reinforcement wave for the Marines to be roughly matched to the Xeno numbers for a fair fight and give the Marines 20 minutes to reach a self-destruct button in the xeno hive area that blows up the atmospheric processor.

Instead of hijack FOB defense of Marines spending 20 minutes cade hugging, its now 20 minutes of Marines attacking the Xenomorphs instead.

Lore? Consistency? Immersion? Hijack has none of that to start with, so this is already a boon in that regard.

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YEAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

,ABCD CHARGE

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Ultimately the 4 pumps each do the same thing. Not really expected you’d be able to hold all four. One is probably right next to the crashed ship, you’d surely be spread too thin to hold three. Holding two is ideal. The more pumps just the faster the process goes.

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your idea has the right direction: stop the mentality that marines have to wait in fob number 2.

I am not a fan of making hijack about beating the xenos though. I have seen 20 groundside marines leave their FOB to 6 xenos (prime xenos wrecking the marines but still), only for the soon to be 10ish xenos greeted by the 20 marines+10 shipside + a lucky elite 6 PMC to absolutely dominate them. Xenos start to lose shipside when marines outnumber them 2 to 1.

Hijack would ideally be a fight to leave and survive the ship rather then fight to kill xenos/take an objective from em. Otherwise you get our current situation where marines want to early evac to kill the xenos shipside, and req holding out on good guns/ammo/metal to later support the shipside fight.

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