Is Chance's Claim LZ2 worth picking?

[BeatriceBootes]

When I went XO, I liked picking LZ2 on CC because of the closer access to sensors. I thought it was fun for marines to rush sensors and fortify it as some sort of urgency mission, and well if marines can hold well, then sensors will be all yours.

But LZ1 CC is the meta pick, aka widely considered to be the better LZ pick.

Forecon always holds at north LZ1, which is a pretty big reason why LZ1 is picked almost all the time.

And marines are just used to LZ1 as well. Chance’s Claim on LZ1 is very simple. Just rescue forecon, repair comms, rush a-block (better yet OB it), and then reactors decides the game.

Apparently LZ1 is harder to breach as well? That’s what I heard, though feel free to correct me.

But part of me likes LZ2 more, because I think it’s fun to treat sensors like a mini FOB basically.

Thoughts?

[SPACE]

LZ2 is superior because if marines are bald and/or xenos are good they wipe faster and gives you a better CC skip. sensors also give a big advantage and you get to caves faster (skip a-block)

simply superior and survivors dont dictate how the round should go

[zirakeal]

Alright you need to see CC as corridors, LZ 1 has a corridor going from North to South. LZ 2 (north of it) has a corridor going from West to East. This makes it alot more of hassle to push trough as xenos can hide behind walls and such a lot easier! Also the reactor entrances are better position for LZ 1. Thus good XO’s and CO’s prefer LZ1. FORCON just meta knows it I suppose

[Willzadl (Halfdan)]

LZ2 is bad from experience for reasons unknown… beware…

[DaTimeSmog]

The engi location also naturally favors LZ1 as it eliminates a lot of the issues other maps have with engineering constantly having to baby-sit the comms APC. Another issue is that the gauntlet from LZ2 to reactors is actually hellish and allows backliners to dominate the map due to the amount of cover they’re given.

Also the reactors entrance from the LZ2 side legitmately sucks to siege.

[Pablo_Excavator]

Lz1 - Comms spawn location are superior. FOB defence is easier because of wider areas around the LZ, Podlocks to trap Young T1’s, East and North east are litterally the easiest to defend against. OB effect are more better because its in the center of the colony. Overall more popular because marines know it better.

Lz2- a 50/50 you get a shit spawn location. Way too many defences for xeno’s to position behind to get to FOB. Honestly only worth picking in case hive is in SE caves since the beaches are easier to take a hold off. Marines know this place less than Lz1.

[osmos]

This is my problem with LZ2 is that the natural pathways to go up north are blocked which LZ1 does not have this issue (straight line up north to west reactor). Having to awkwardly move though garage and med/admin slows down as you will need to break into windows.

This is also the backliner xenos wet dream. It is very easy for xenos to disrupt the supply line from the west cargo/security due to the ample cover. So, I agree with SPACE that choosing LZ2 is the grief option for command if they want to lose.

LZ1 as you mentioned a-block is the main obstacle that you can easily meta-OB and will already reach west reactor.

[DangerRevolution (Rear Admiral Salazar "Cyclops" Petrovich Druzhinnin of the Outer Rim Defense Fleet)]

It’s the ultimate test of skill for both teams.

No defenses, no woke resin, pure battle.

You land (1), push north (2), fix sensors (3).

At this point, the Xenos wake up and start to move east. This is it.

You wipe the Xenos and siege Hive (win), or you get wiped and lose. Denying Xenos their metahold puts the initiative massively in your favour, and as long as you have good SLs you will win the game.

[imgxkiller]

I feel that Landing Zone-1 Is the go-ahead because of it’s proximity to power, and the spot of Comms being superior rather than the ones in LZ2, as the LZ2 Comms relays are way more Close Quarters, compared the the one in LZ1 which is on a more open area; I also feel that the advance towards Reactors is way more painfull with less-experienced marines due to it’s close quarters nature, which can gran a good Xenomorph team a lot of captures.
LZ2 is also way harder to Secure from what i’ve seen, so there’s also that.

From a more roleplay perspective, i feel that LZ2 Is a better pick, due to it being closer to Administration and the known Force Recon dropship position.

[Sakuyoi]

too many indestructable rock makes it hard to secure i dont like it

[BLUZero (Mick McMickinson)]

I think most of what is worth saying about the LZ differences has been said, but I would like to reiterate zirakeal’s post above in thinking about the maps as corridors. You can do this for a lot of maps, and it helps to understand the natural flow of the game when the fight is not static.
In general, map zones where the corridor flow is parallel to the objective is advantageous for marines, while zones where it is perpendicular tend to favor xenos. Marines get an advantage from lines of sight and room to shoot and move around; xenos get an advantage from corners to ambush and tight quarters to confine enemies. This goes a long way to explaining why some maps feel one-sided towards a certain faction: most often it’s the layout or map geometry. Fiorina, for example, gets accused of being xeno-favoring because despite having some long parallel corridors for marines to travel, it is full of perpendicular lanes intruding into those zone that allow for easy flanks which can be difficult to counter effectively. LV-624 gets accused of being marine-sided because the big open North-South lanes spanning most of the map up to the caves give marines a lot of open ground to range over while providing little safe cover for xenos if they don’t build it up.
Lane design is a hugely important factor in whether a map is perceived as good, despite having little to no discussion about it happening in game. If you oversimplify the lane design in one way or another you get maps where the average game takes on a samey meta (Hybrisa, Chance’s Claim, LV-624) which may or may not discourage people from wanting to pick it. That all said, the examples listed in the previous sentence are not loved/hated solely because of the lane design, but it plays an important role in why the meta people criticize about them develops initially and sticks so firmly.

[Pablo_Excavator]

I was on about varadero and no one told me…

[tallerfission]

LZ2 will be a lot more effective as a push if you have competent SLs purely by the fact that most xeno players are used to the meta of ‘fortify a block cry when it gets OB’d hold reactors win’

taking the enemy off-guard is surprisingly effective. they’ll have little cover, often overextend on weak fortifications and then get absolutely whalloped when the entire UA drops the anvil on their big shiny dome

basically what salazar said

[Vaikas (Jonas Ward)]

LZ 2 is beter if you manage to OB hospital and sensors with HE or Cluster. All that remains is open ground, xenos only can flank via security but it happens if Queen has brains.

On the other note, LZ2 is a very valid pick if you have SLs that can make marines listen to them and call in OBs when required to do so, without asking questions.

Only minus is that you need someone yo fix engineering for power, which is at lz1.

My view, (300 XO hours, 300 Queen hours) is that LZ2 is beter just because xenos 99% of time build up a blocks like clowns.

[Addict64]

You can land at LZ1, move to LZ2, and attack from that direction in less than a minute. Or reach A Block, and flank by moving east. I wouldn’t consider the wider colony too much, when choosing the landing site.

I’ll summarize the main points of existing as a Fobbit on either LZ:

LZ1

• Primary Cade Lines are watched by marines leaving the FOB, only one flank is out of view of a marine leaving the Alamo to join the battle. Can be guarded by less Fobbits and no comms as a result.
• Surface area towards the enemy is narrower West to East (the north). Reduces the amount of metal required, and the walls break up how boiler gas can damage the cade lines. Holds a siege much longer as a result.
• Access through the south tunnels is a winding path that increases the risk of xenos being trapped and flanked. Increasing the travel time to flank is a significant advantage to coordinating defense.
• Engineering is easily incorporated into the FOB, sometimes with a comms tower connected to Engineering leading to a truely massive FOB that holds critical areas.
• Has a lot of windows, tables and walls to remove, requires significant labour to achieve ideal firing lines into the Bar.
• Lots of fences to turn into materials eastward.
• Hyperdyne weapon crate can provide up to three sniper rifles.
• Burrowers threaten the Alamo directly if not monitored, can be entirely prevented with building/foam.

LZ2

• The northeast FOB is not visible to marines exiting the Alamo, especially if the cades are built outwards. Guards there will be isolated, the defense will lack information on its status when comms are down. If northeast breaches, the Alamo is directly exposed starboard side, without any firing lines from the west to cover it, and without marines in reserve adjacent.
• The interior northeast FOB does not have space to fight in and curves around the Alamo limiting firing lines. Requires M56D emplacements attached to both fore-Alamo ports.
• The correct setup northeast FOB should connect to the cliffs. Achieved it is an potent angle covering the FOB westward for scoped weapons (which marines won’t have in abundance). This requires a lot of labour and materials, and will get comtechs bitched at for “wasting mats” in order to execute the layout.
• Surface area towards the enemy is incredibly wide west to east (north). Xenos get long indestructable walls breaking up the marine firing lines to the north east and south west.
• When north west FOB breaches, you are left with a long line to cover westward that must connect all the way to the south LZ, which costs a lot of materials to cade.
• The south west FOB is well out of sight of marines traveling to the front, requiring additional monitoring. IO’s also like using explosives here if you wall it off or weld the airlock.
• The west FOB is well out of sight of marines traveling to the front, requiring additional monitoring. The west is also compromised if the north is since it is such an extended position.
• There’s some fences you can break down for metal, and its less than near the other LZ.
• Connecting a mining comms tower to the FOB is difficult to do, there’s a lot of tunnels to remove south colony, and building towards mining doesn’t add layers towards the enemy.
• Burrowers cannot directly access the Alamo, they have to dig under cadelines (which should already be monitored).

[NyoomVoyager (Nyoom)]

Others have already said it but yea, it’s the casino block that’s the problem; east-west halls are more frightening as a marine because they directly eclipse your vision. Probably also there’s some treatise to be written here on how your game screen ratio changes how you perceive the environment but I don’t want to write it up right now. Marines on TGMC stalled in exactly the same spots when approaching from LZ2.

Maybe with FOB rework stuff, depending on where objectives end up, it could make pushing from LZ2 better. The only way on TGMC that LZ2 worked was if you got a layout of disks that was oriented to the east. Having a tangible push point made it easier and frankly the push from ABLOCK on the west to security in a diagonal was actually a very scary affair with lots of attrtion.

TLDR, marines move best in straight lines, and they move better in vertical lines than horizontal ones. LZ2 introduces two horizontal lines before caves where LZ1 really only has one, so LZ1 is preferred.

[Swagile]

Land LZ-2 if you are able to field deploy as XO / CO, or have good SL’s since you need good coordination / two OB’s to do LZ-2 properly.

Land LZ-1 if you want to turn your brain off as command since you only need one OB (ablock central) and maybe a 2nd OB at Fitness to have a straight open line to hive.

[DangerRevolution (Rear Admiral Salazar "Cyclops" Petrovich Druzhinnin of the Outer Rim Defense Fleet)]

I don’t really see what you need to OB Hospital for, if you take up positions at the west side of that Admin-Hospital building then Xenos have to cross an open field to get to you and you have cover?

[Swagile]

You need to OB the area directly north of LZ-2 as a bit north of it, the Comms unit tends to spawn. The problem is if you do not OB or breacher it, its full of 2x2 and 2x3 hallways xenos can exploit as natural choke points and we know how badly the average unga does, combat wise, in natural chokes.

The 2nd OB needs to hit central / north hospital so you take out a part of Admin and have a straight line into Sensors, OR if you bypass that with breachers / go west and have some decent CT’s, you can use the 2nd OB to either wipe out Security (to stop the xeno counter) or OB right into reactors south which creates a open playing ground.

Unfortunately, OB’s are completely RNG, so unless you get a lucky comms unit north LZ-2 roll and either double HE, double Cluster, or HE + Cluster, there’s no point going LZ-2 considering the average skill level of marines. They will get lost and/or walk into chokes and die going LZ-2.

This is assuming that the xenos have an average skill level equal to your marine team.

Main 2 Routes:

Circles are OB points.

This route requires incredibly good marines to pull off since OB’s need to be done well, marines need to stick together since you move through quite a few chokes, breachers need to be utilized, in general its a high skill route. Not recommended for 90% of rounds since marines suck.

This second route requires a lot less skill and is simple. You only use one OB to clear admin / hospital (preferably cluster) because you want to prevent an encirclement from the West. The comms unit usually spawns north of LZ-2 in that one spot where the red line ends near south hospital and the squad that stays there will also intercept xeno hive if they try to encircle, while the rest of the marines push for Sensors and later Reactor.

You can save 2nd OB for Security to stop a good hive from contesting your rear OR if they suck you use it to blast past the choke SE Reactors to get right into Reactors.

These are really the only viable plans that account for xenos not being dumb; you can try a plan that rushes middle Reactor like Hunter Stafford’s plans but the problem is they are all or nothing since if xenos are smart they will flank behind and abuse your corpsmen / comms and cut off your retreat to FOB. Then its GG.