joooks - Staff Report: Enforcement Action Taken - Steelpoint

joooks - Staff Report: Enforcement Action Taken - Steelpoint

What’s your BYOND key:

joooks

Round ID:

19184

Your character name:

Johanna J. Jaakari

Their BYOND key:

Steelpoint

What are you reporting?:

Enforcement Action Taken

Description of the incident:

In the Solaris round I was the delta SO; CIC decided that we need to pull back from filtration to lower admin for a regroupment because the front was going pretty badly.
Delta aSL (A.W. Rapier)who was also the Grenadier Specialist was ordered several times to make his squad retreat and refused to; ignoring his orders and asking senior officers(XO/CO) what’s the point of doing that, displaying intent that he was not even considering to follow the order although he should since there’s the new rules that you OOCly have to listen to non-suicidal orders, so I admin helped him.

Steelpoint responded to me that such an order is unfollowable because the marines won’t listen to him. (Mind you, most of the force already filt to admin, the area south of admin was secured and the road back was clear). After another one of my ahelps where I explained to him that the rules should still be enforced since he got orders to fall back as a SPECIALIST, not just an aSL, (since my ticket was instantly closed without a chance of letting me respond, I had to open another one.) Steelpoint told me that such an order would be suicidal because he would have to go alone there (even though the way to southern admin was clear) thus it was okay for him to stay at the front.

Evidence:

Logs will provide it

1 Like

Upon receiving an ahelp regarding the delta aSL (The Specialist) refusing to obey an order, I performed an investigation via ahelping the player as well as checking logs, after gathering this information and attempting to contextualize their circumstances I determined, in my opinion, that they were not in breach of rule 2 since I believed the issue was that they were unable to force their squad to cease fighting on the frontline and retreat.

I did not believe it would be appropriate to take staff action against someone whose fault is that they can’t force their squad to obey an order. Ergo I concluded no staff intervention was needed.

Roger A.W. Rapier here, the Delta Grenadier Specialist that round. Felt the need to elaborate as somebody got into trouble over my actions. Thus heres my POV:

At the time when the retreat order was given, I told my squad to retreat via radio multiple times, waiting for them to rally on me or move out in small groups back to lower administration, got ignored by my squad and more than half of the marine force stayed at frontlines after the CO himself gave a retreat order via announcements. I would only retreat with majority of my squad, as its technically my duty as aSL to guide and organise them, which wasnt successful at all. So with all that, I decided to stick with my squad, on the frontlines. (For the record: I only started questioning the orders on command channel when I realised my squad was NOT planning to follow my or CO’s orders at all).

We had a cadeline, we had a pile of marine corpses that corpsmen were reviving when the order was given to the entire marine force, with each push made by the queen we managed (most of the time) to nab a T2/T3 and retrieve our dead. On top of that, we secured a T3 (praetorian?) kill literally few minutes after the retreat order was given, which got all of the marines hyped up and solidified their position on filtration. It was really simple that marines wouldnt retreat no matter what, I explained it to you and the CO on radio. Shortly after, the CO makes an announcement about “go on… bleed yourselves in filtration” and marines counterattack, pushing into caves.

" (even though the way to southern admin was clear) " and no, it wasnt at all. I had to fight off a lurker to save some poor marine from getting nabbed a good six minutes before the order was given. Lurkers wont engage a group of 5 marines, but they would surely engage a lone specialist that happens to be not scout or pyro.

TL;DR: couldnt tardwrangle marines, retreating alone was too risky so I provided support for my squad.

3 Likes

Log pull for round ID: 19184

Involved Ckeys

Involved Ckeys:

You can ctrl+f the ## marks to filter the logs.
#1# Joooks
#2# Steelpoint
#3# (IC Name of the spec is: Roger A.W. Rapier , included for context’s sake.)

Related IC Communications

Related IC communications:

[2023-10-22 12:14:42.988] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [Command]: Get us a fucking retreat, we cant deal with this chokehold.
[2023-10-22 12:14:47.187] SAY: #1# Johanna J. Jaakari [Delta]: DELTA PULL BACK TO SOUTHERN ADMIN. (CKEY: Joooks) (JOB: Staff Officer)
[2023-10-22 12:14:56.157] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [General]: SOUTHERN ADMINISTRATION.
[2023-10-22 12:15:14.248] OVERWATCH: #1# Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari) sent ‘FALL BACK TO SOUTHERN ADMINISTRATION’ to squad Delta.
[2023-10-22 12:15:23.590] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [General]: PULL BACK.
[2023-10-22 12:15:36.162] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [Command]: Command, problem.
[2023-10-22 12:15:41.443] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [Command]: Marines somehow pushed through.
[2023-10-22 12:18:01.876] OVERWATCH: #1# Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari) sent ‘LEAVE FILT GO TO SOUTHERN ADMIN’ to squad Delta.

#1# {First ticket is made.}
#2# {A.W. Ticket is opened.}
#2# {A.W. Ticket is closed.}

[2023-10-22 12:21:00.483] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [Command]: Command, you must understand this.

#2# {First ticket is closed.}

[2023-10-22 12:21:11.419] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [Command]: They did not give a FUCK about your orders, they wont even give a fuck about MY orders.
[2023-10-22 12:21:20.972] SAY: #3# Roger A.W. Rapier [Command]: The best we can do is try to play along.

#1# {Second ticket is opened.}
#2# {Second ticket is closed.}

[2023-10-22 12:34:00.457] SAY: #1# Johanna J. Jaakari [Delta]: GO INTO CAVES AND PUSH. (CKEY: Joooks) (JOB: Staff Officer)
[2023-10-22 12:48:50.691] OVERWATCH: #1# Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari) set Delta’s primary objective to ‘Push north towards lambda’.

Tickets

TICKETS:

The first Joooks ticket:

[2023-10-22 12:18:49.431] ADMIN: Ticket #6: #1# Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari): hii delta spec/asl is constantly refusing to pull back :#
[2023-10-22 12:19:09.034] ADMIN: PM: #2# Steelpoint/(Bloody Larva (191))-> Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari): I’ll investigate.
[2023-10-22 12:21:05.784] ADMIN: PM: #2# Steelpoint/(Bloody Larva (191))-> Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari): THey are attempting to follow your orders, any failure on this order is not their fault.
[2023-10-22 12:21:07.041] ADMIN: #2# Ticket resolved by Steelpoint/(Bloody Larva (191))

The A.W. ticket:

[2023-10-22 12:19:43.995] ADMIN: PM: #2# Steelpoint/(Bloody Larva (191))-> (Roger A.W. Rapier): Have you been ordered to withdraw by the Commander Roger?
[2023-10-22 12:20:04.991] ADMIN: PM: #3# (Roger A.W. Rapier)-> Steelpoint/(Bloody Larva (191)): yes. i ordered a retreat when they first ordered it but marines did NOT move at all, so its just hopeless
[2023-10-22 12:20:45.209] ADMIN: PM: #2# Steelpoint/(Bloody Larva (191))-> (Roger A.W. Rapier): All good then, your doing your orders as best you can, you should render every effort to convince the marines to retreat but you can only do so much.

The second Joooks ticket:

[2023-10-22 12:21:55.526] ADMIN: Ticket #8: #1# Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari): Steelpoint, he’s been repeatedly told to leave filtration and go to southern admin. He literally argued against that order, and stayed in filtration all this time. He’s not trying to follow that order at all.
[2023-10-22 12:22:35.143] ADMIN: PM: #2# Steelpoint/(Defender (IO-191-N))-> Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari): From my observations he has attempted to corral his squad but he has been unable to convince the rank-and-file to move, he can not be held responsible for that
[2023-10-22 12:23:59.968] ADMIN: PM: #1# Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari)-> Steelpoint/(Defender (IO-191-N)): Either way he’s a spec and he’s bound to follow orders…
[2023-10-22 12:25:35.610] ADMIN: PM: #2# Steelpoint/(Defender (IO-191-N))->Joooks/(Johanna J. Jaakari): This is correct, but his alternative would be for him to retreat by himself and abandon his squad. He is bound to follow your orders, but he is not bound to commit suicide. If he can’t convince his squad to retreat he has no choice but to remain. This is a IC issue and I do not believe he has broken the rules. I’ll do a double check of his chat logs and do a full investigation but if the issue is just his squad not cooperating then its a IC issue.

Added report:needverdict and removed report:pendinglogs

I had thought I resolved this previously but it seems I haven’t.
Based on the logs the speciaist made reasonable effort to move their squad, and were ignored by their marines. I do not see any wrongdoing here by the player nor Steelpoint.

Added report:denied and removed report:needverdict