Kryth - Player Report: Aldrik Wynters, Rule 11

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Kryth - Player Report: Aldrik Wynters, Rule 11

What’s your BYOND key?

Kryth

Round ID:

27652

Your character name:

Kryth Kross

Accused character name:

Aldrik Wynters

What rule(s) were broken?:

Rule 11

Description of the incident:

I was the Civlian CC and I wanted to go without a helmet, but wanted an integrated camera helmet, so I went to req behind the desk and asked for it, I asked first the ASO but since he couldnt find the one specifically asked for, I made a comment about his incompetency and went for the req line instead, from which I was given it.

Later on, the ASO comes up to me and asks me to sign a paperwork, I claim that I do not need to pay for this and ignored the paperwork. I then lose internet while waiting in the shuttle, come back and I’m being arrested for “Theft”

After being processed, the CMP handles my appeal, which I expect should know the law and I had ahelped if this was a valid arrest(unfortunately got a response by the end of the round). I had explained to them what had happened and kept insisting that since I am not a marine and was a civilian, I am obligated to “pay” for the req equipment and was denied my appeal.

Later on when the round ended, I got a reply on my ahelp and was told that it was indeed a false charge and I am not obligated to “pay”. Specifically the staff said that the ASO and QM can deny my request, but cannot hand out the equipment, then ask for payment afterward, which in this case I was handed the equipment from the req line, in front of the ASO.

This report is for the CMP, because as far as I remember, they should be knowledgeable enough to know ML and SOP so thats what the report is for

Evidence:

Admin PM from-Detective Google: Standard Operating Procedure - CM-SS13 - Wiki it’s here on our forums. They can deny you service or force you to pay for service mind you, just that they can’t give you the item and then turn around and demand payment, if that makes sense.

This is from the next round at the start, i had asked them to resend what rule they broke because my logs from last round got deleted.

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I deleted my first reply to this because it was a fucking mess and I wanted to redo it better.

So. First things first. I woke up and after walking out of cryo, the first thing I saw was the CC getting jailed. I instantly ask WHY they’re arrested, and my MP’s and the ASO say theft.
The ASO takes me aside, explains what happened to me, and having one side of the story, I now go to handle the appeal. I listen to what the CC has to say, we debate out some of the RP points he’s trying to make, and I decide, with 30 seconds left, to decline the appeal.

Now. Why did I decline the appeal?
"Civilian Correspondents are part of the public media organizations, you aren’t part of the marine force so you don’t have to answer to command and they can deny you anything that isn’t a right to any civilian. "
That is directly a quote from the CC wiki page. Hell. The CC is BUILT around making scandelous stories. To me, it’s pretty clear that the CC shouldn’t be getting restricted equipment (M5 Camera Gear).
To me, what it sounded like happened, based on what EVERYONE said, was that the CC asked for an M5 Camera Gear from the ASO, got denied, went into Req line, and got it issued to him by someone else.
I’ve played a fair amount of Req, and oh lordie have I seen this play out a million trillion times.
It then sounded like what happened was the ASO said “okay, if you REALLY want it, you need to pay for it, sign this document so we can charge your company.” the CC said no, and refused to return the camera gear, and was then arrested for theft.

Now. I could see the theft applying in two different ways here.

  1. The CC was DENIED this item, and got it from someone else, circumventing the ASO’s orders, and getting what they wanted, in affect stealing the item.
  2. The CC was holding an item, was told “pay for it now” and then ran off.

The CC did state he had insulted the ASO, and that it might have been retribution against that, but everything I had heard from the CC and the ASO made it out that the CC had basically gotten slapped for being told no by Daddy and ran to Mommy to get what he wanted.
So… It came across like theft, and I thought the charge was fitting.

Now. Onto what DetectiveGoogle said (which, in full disclosure, I reached out on discord and asked).
My understanding is that her RULING is that they can’t do this, but based on everything I read in ML and in SoP, it is not stated that they cannot hand you something, and then turn around and demand payment. Which. Okay. It might fall under the “eh, common sense” application. BUT. There were 30 seconds left on the CC"s appeal when I declined it (on a 7 minute sentence) so it wasn’t like I doomed him to rot for 30+ minutes in jail. He could have also requested to appeal to HC if he found my ruling insufficient or he thought that I broke ML.

Now. The CC did try to RP it out and say that they should have been given it due to their special contract with the marines… But.. that’s not really how CC works from the job page, so I didn’t accept this reasoning.

So. All in all. I think this didn’t really violate ML or SoP from MY action.s No one made it out reasonable via IC or LOOC that this was an abuse of power. There were 2-3 req members, 2 more MP’s, and countless marines in the Req line. If this was TRULY an abuse of power and the marines saw someone getting arrested..
Riots have started for less.
I thought there would have been WAY more of an outcry for an abuse of power that happened in Req line.

So. To sum it up. I thought the charge of theft was fitting from everything I heard, this was not directly stated in SoP about Req. (There is a certain QM who loves to charge people for items, so in my mind, it was super similar to that) and that ML/SoP was not broken by my ruling.
If the highest ranking department official (ASO, who is in charge of the QM) denies you something, you go and get it anyway, and then the ASO gives you an out to avoid theft charges… And you refuse to take it? It sounds like you get what you get.

Edit : Also, if you were arrested while DC’ed, you should have 1000% communicated that to me. I have no knowledge of that, not you, nor the MP’s, nor anyone else attempted to communicate this to me, in any way shape or form

I hope this explains my thoughts, and actions, and I hope that Kryth knows it wasn’t done with malice.
I will happily accept any ruling :slight_smile:

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I should clarify…I did go through the proper channels and was NOT denied service. I was given it, THEN later on told to sign a contract. I was arrested for theft for “restricted gear” which was not even a gun. It was just the m5 integrated helmet. I am pretty sure I even stated that I wasn’t denied service, and add to the fact you did mention in character, USCM doesnt hand out “individual contracts” then ignore that statement then continue to say that I need to sign the same contract specifically for me to pay for an…integrated camera, not a gun, just a head piece.

I did communicate that I got disconnected, though I guess the metaphor of I used wasnt clear enough.

I only sent this report as per the mods recommendation to me since this was apparently a false charge, and as for asking for help from the mods(HC), they only replied to my ahelp at the end of the round

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Hey there, people!

Firstly, thank you both for sharing your side of the incident. I read your comments and checked the logs. ASO refused to give M5 Camera Gear to Combat Correspondent, there is nothing wrong with it. Then CC asked other Requisitions personnel for the same item and they gave the gear to CC, so M5 Camera Gear was issued by an authorized Requisitions personnel who handled the line. In other words, it wasn’t stolen by CC.

Marine Law states for theft,

To take items (or property) from another person or entity without their express permission, or to retain possession of items that have been taken without permission. This includes the removal of vendors from department areas without permission.

Authorized Requisitions personnel giving this item to CC means giving permission to CC to possess this item. Therefore, we can’t talk about theft here.

I don’t see any problem with Requisitions demanding money for certain items in certain cases. However demanding payment retrospectively for an item after giving it and requiring a contract to be signed, otherwise imposing a theft charge, does not seem lawful or realistic to me. I see a lack of communication here between Requisitions and ASO. The Camera Gear is given by a Requisitions personnel willingly, ASO here do not give any order to the personnel under them, and even if they did, the order is not followed by Requisitions personnel. In this case, CC cannot be hold responsible for the lack of communication between Requisitions personnel. In this case, the CMP should have accepted the appeal. However, I can understand the CMP’s perspective, considering the niche nature of the incident and the fact that the only information the CMP has is the lacking statements from the ASO.

I will approve this player report, CMP should have approved the appeal for the aforementioned reasons. I will leave this as an unofficial warning for @sevatar.

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