Use this thread for any changes you believe should be done to marine law. If you believe something needs to be added, or removed. This is not the place to complain about MP players.
Please keep it serious.
3 Likes
I believe we should adapt the Uniform Code of Military Justice to fit our purposes as it’s a more thought out system for a military than Marine Law (Renamed Space Law, essentially) as it would be more applicable and cover more than it currently does.
-
Back sometime ago before JAS was introduced, there was a policy in Marine Law that required Military Police to apply the least severe charge if in doubt or the crime was unclear.
- In my opinion this should be reintroduced in some form as I have been seeing a significant increase in bad faith policing by simply bad/incompetent/inexperienced players.
-
There should be a policy introduced that allows for an acting Chief of Military Police that has similar privileges like the Chief of MP where they are allowed to arrest MP and demote them if they break the law.
- The lack of an acting Chief of MP tends to cause issues at times, especially when bad faith or less experienced MP are on. The acting Chief of MP should be assigned as follows:
- Warden > Most Experienced MP ((Playtime if they want it) assigned by the Commander)).
- The lack of an acting Chief of MP tends to cause issues at times, especially when bad faith or less experienced MP are on. The acting Chief of MP should be assigned as follows:
-
Wardens should be held to the same standard as the Chief of MP and made it clear that is the case.
- The Warden is effectively the 2ic of the MP Department, however many players that play Warden play it as a glorified MP role and not as a Warden role that has final say over Marine Law if there is no Chief of MP or Commanding Officer.
-
The bribery charge falls under Aiding & Abetting, however that means the crime that the person was bribed to do needs to be attached too. I believe this needs to be clarified to ensure that MP are aware of the crimes that would fall under that.
- In fact, I believe a minimum of 2 (or more) short examples should be given per crime to give a clearer picture to MPs. Furthermore, sub-class crimes that would fall under the crime should be listed under the “parent” crime to make Marine Law more wholesome.
I’m more than happy to discuss this further on Discord if further clarification or explanation is warranted.
2 Likes
New law idea - Just thought up of this concept seeing how hostile survivors are a thing. Basically the idea is to insert a new law stating. “Upon release of a PoW, they are to do limited service which benefits the USCM and the current area of operations. Failure to serve the USCM will revert the PoW back into permanent confinement and the commanding officer who allowed the release of the PoW will face punishment.”
Basically, the CO, XO or aCO can confront the hostile survivor and offer an ultimatum, “serve the USCM or rot in the cell.” Plus side you get more cannon fodder, the downside has severe consequences which not only puts the PoW back in perma BUT throws whoever the aCO was who said “Release him” will face criminal charges. How the PoW ends up back in confinement is obviously breaking Military Law.
Dunno what to name this idea, thought it would be fair to give hostile survivors more gameplay since the moment you’re in brig, there’s no getting out until hijack. Also the arrest for the aCO, why not, make rounds more interesting without the aCO. To add to this, marines can have criminal backgrounds in their character creator so I don’t see why hostile survivors shouldn’t be given the same opportunity.
Edit: I literally just thought of this, it definitely needs some redefining
*pulls out nerd glasses
Well as a nearly plat CMP, I would love to comment.
So, SUPER old context, but once as CMP, a marine was spam grabbing me.
I told them to stop, and they refused. I didn’t quite know what to charge. It’s technically unwanted touching, but not in a sexual nature. I just opted to charge with SH, and advise whoever did the appeal that I also could charged Assault - a less charge oddly enough - but that charge usually requires ill intent as well as more than grabbing.
If we could add charges like “Minor Battery” and “Major Battery”, that would be great. There are dozens of scenarios where it could be applied beyond the one listed above. Especially as, right now, assault as it is written requires ill-intent. Say if a marine did accidental discharge and it hits another marine: you can’t really charge with AWDW. Same as if you accidentally harm someone. Accidentally killing someone for instance is a charge of “Manslaughter” so as to avoid us just throwing people in prison for murder. I think having this charge as an option would avoid misunderstandings around intent, create more requirement for MPs to investigate, and cut down on timers.
Damage to government property shouldn’t include forcing the marine to fix the damage or the hacked machine as uncuffing a marine and basically begging him to please fix this is unlikeness of mp standard and just gives them another chance to run, just set it to njp or brig time and let the ship maints fix it
Searches should be based on probable cause and not have to ask for approval and simplified to if you have pc or reasonable suspicion you can detain and search right there
Appeals need to be simplified to where the officer in charge of the appeal can pardon the criminal within reason since 90% of appeals happen like this regardless of sop
Clarify the contraband charges to handle situations with req handling black market items for clarification with all parties involved
Add breaking and entering which overrides dtgp and trespassing
Permanent prisoners should be allowed access to the courtyard without a escort or good behaviour
Shoving shouldn’t be assault and lowered to a smaller charge
Survivors shouldn’t be able to keep their items if it’s against military law and should be searched and confiscated when they come up regardless if they plan to head on down because there’s been situations where upp “hostile” survs come on board in full upp gear and get instantly executed by marines and then the same survs want to head ground side in same gear to help marines which makes zero sense in both a rp and logical sense
Edit: mps should be allowed to wear whatever headgear they want
Marine law is partly based on the UCMJ but it’s a diet version and made to adhere to the videogame aspect of CM
Eventually who will be left to enforce these rules? This is getting rediculous guys.
1 Like
Would administration be opposed to renaming ML to the UCMJ?
No
This isn’t a trained battalion
We are not held the standards of real marines, and shouldn’t be
I do not want to be arrested for not saluting an officer while I walk past them
The UCMJ would be too large, it applies to everyone and everything in the military, hence the name. People are dedicated to study and practice UCMJ
This is a game
Not the military
5 Likes
Bay has infact the UCMJ, not only useful for executing someone by field court martial because they worn silly outfits, but rather as additional space law for EC or Fleet which isn’t even that big, and I don’t think we even need anything like an extra space law like there, so it would be rather a rename.
About the “this is a funny two-decade-old spessman game” and “we are not held to the standards of a marine”, you are right that this is mainly to have fun and not have to watch your monitor while sitting inside the brig for 30 minutes, but this should be still a somewhat-RP server, and it is unrealistic for trained marines to go around randomly breaking windows and assaulting senior officers because “I was bored”. And I think, most time you sit in brig it isn’t because of “bad” MPs, but rather because you did things like randomly firing weapons around (Why are your weapons even unholstered with safety turned off aboard?), assaulting the military police and breaking into restricted areas, and of course knocking down superior officers during briefing. Honest, you would be atleast demoted for “accidentally” discharging weapons on another marine, or straight up brigged, and sitting in jail for five minutes because you assaulted the highest-ranking officer aboard is in fact nothing.
Heya!
So recently I had a small suggestion for a change to ML in mind that might be nice, so I thought that I might as well bring it up on the forums to maybe get some other opinions on it.
Since people can get pretty bogged down in brig and can get stuck in there for a while with the biggest culprit being Disorderly Conduct in Confinement I thought it might be nice to change that charge.
Let me preface this by saying that it should 100% be a charge and that it is a good thing that it stacks on top of a regular sentence. But I think that changing it up a bit might make it less prone to abuse and keeping folks in brig for a really long time, be that intentional or unintentional.
My suggestion is to rewrite Disorderly Conduct in Confinement to only apply to violent crimes, with the only exceptions being DTGP and Sexual Harassment. (Although you could probably make a case for both of those to also be violent in nature.)
This would remove the stacking of charges for stuff like not listening to MPs orders (insubordination), causing a ruckus (Hooliganism/Disorderly Conduct) and probably most importantly for insulting MPs (Disrespecting a Superior Officer).
I think it could do some good things for brig as a whole. Not only taking away some of the frustration that people have with the brig times but it could also open up some more avenues for fun interactions while in the brig, especially with multiple prisoners.
Anyways its probably not a perfect suggestion and I might have overlooked some stuff so feel free to poke holes in my suggestion!
I support removing crimes which would be only worth a NJP normally like hooligalism and disorderly conduct which is in fact “You did not commit a crime but I am sure you are doing something wrong” from the DCIC charge, but things like DASO and insubordination should still be punishable, because honest, if you call everyone in the department an incompetent idiot and do everything but what the warden says, you don’t have to wonder or be frustrated if you sit five extra minutes in the brig. About the adding battery, I think constantly grabbing someone would count as assault, but maybe add something like minor assault in case someone only get shoved once and things like that.
Some things I believe ML is missing
MPs will commonly use excessive force even when you’re not resisting, for example mag dumping their taser on you evwn though you’re not even running. The solution imo would be a use of force continuum in the ML and an “excessive force” charge
Conspiracy to commit a crime
Should be in 3 levels depending on the crime their conspirating to do
If they’re conspiring with to do a minor crime, minor conspiracy. If they’re conspiring to like, beat up the CL? Major conspiracy. Are they planing to kill the CO? Capital conspiracy
Why does the provost office only side with whoever wins the mutiny instead of the original commander? It makes no sense that the uscm would have mutiny illegal until the mutineers win. Thats like having murdering someone be illegal until you actually kill them.
that should count under Misuse of Authority as misuse of authority is “The exercising of power to a malicious extent by Military Police or deputized personnel acting as an MP; examples include beating a downed prisoner, excessive use of harmful or non-lethal force, or other abusive actions that led to the harm of a person in custody. Detained suspects should not have more force used on them than necessary in order to pacify them.”
1 Like
The DASO is actually mostly why I’m suggesting the change. If you’re doing stuff that is extremely disrespectful then they do kind of deserve the extra brig time. But DASO is a really broad charge.
Lets say you get tossed in on some crime that you think is false and after being processed you say something like “Fuck you assholes” to the MPs. I don’t think stuff like that deserves the 7 and a half extra minutes of jailtime that you get for saying that stuff.
The DASO also kinda lets MPs be assholes to their prisoners and then takes away any opportunity for those players to say anything mean back, since it would be DASO pretty quickly.
I’m not saying that DASO shouldnt exist and I think its a good thing for marines to even get arrested from time to time for some of the stupid shit they say to officers. But I dont think that it shouldn’t be a stackable thing for the brig. If someone is yelling stuff at you while imprisoned who cares, if they keep doing it after being released you can just jail them again for DASO.
Other charges I think should be added
“Negligent discharge” Minor
Now when you accidentally press lmb in briefing, it’s no longer a bullet designed to kill bears to the head, instead its 10 pushups
“Negligent discharge resulting in an injury” Major
“Medical Malpractice” Major
Maybe add something like minor or major DASO, with the major one being to continue insulting the officer even after asked to stop, but that would probaly make ML much bigger. About the discharge thing, you can in fact brig everyone having a weapon unholstered about for failure to follow procedure, if you feel like getting really many marines into brig, but it would be still something useful as you in fact cannot jail anyone for assault because he accidentally discharged a weapon.
I don’t even know how to respond to this. You just made up your own argument to win
Baystation 12 is HRP, cm is MRP-HRP with mostly senior command postions being held to the HRP standards. You can get away with a lot more on baystation, trust me I’ve played there more than you. MAAs act like actual humans and not the robots we have here who just rush you as quickly as they can to the brig pressing “you’re under arrest” and “you have the right to Appeal” macro. It’s not MPs fault, it’s just the culture and rules in right now. I’ve been able to stop arrest on baystation and rp it out instead of dealing with robots like on cm who just ignore you and run off
I’d advise sticking to CM when trying to argue for something CM wise
I’m all for having rp the problem is people abuse their power which causes issues
Not every MP is bad, but those that are, is exactly why I don’t want ML to be made more complicated. The MP malice law was added because of poor MPs if you need proof they exist.
Your way of “fun” is not everyone else’s fun
1 Like