Sry abt writing essay posts and maybe sound overly critical btw : p i just want to write and think about the topic and brainstorm general concepts because its fun haha
We can set off into anecdotal comparisons of different niches forever (vague concept of power levels), there will never be a satisfying conclusion, and will just balance largely off guesswork. That’s why I’d argue it’s easier to quantify “balance” by making the niche fun (or to at least have a target audience which finds it fun) and capable, but not so capable that it ruins gameplay for other niches. If it doesn’t step on others toes, it’s balanced and doesn’t ruin other niches, and balanced can be unfun to play. But it can also be very fun to play, like in the case of runner, spitter, and in this case, base prae (base prae isn’t even weak compared to other castes imo).
So
Fun - able to be enjoyed by a subset of players – the reason for it to exist, to add depth/breadth, emergent gameplay, appeal, and replayability to the game. I’d argue, “fun” is largely a sum of the methods, not an easily acquirable thing on its own.
Capable - Able to utilize its playstyle to have a noticeable effect - provably viable, and appealing to players who want to do well for their team, not for themselves (But fun must be the priority here). The reason this is important is a playstyle is impossible to utilize (And thus have fun) without capability to perform this playstyle (or to have a spot to “exist” and evolve in the niche ecosystem). And also - because it’s easy to generally define fun as: if the game responds positively with something I like, I am going to interpret it positively and hopefully get happy feelings from playing it. If the joy of the game comes from learning and mastering it, then new stuff must be offered to learn and master (depth), if the joy comes from brutal skill-based combat where I win or gain ground through what is effectively fast-paced puzzles (as is all pvp), that must be offered, etc. And there is many ways to arbitrarily define what “makes fun” here, like the act of inputing, the act of strategizing/logicking, to see something artistic or new or stressful or relaxing or funny or any other emotion / series of emotions which inevitably appeals to us and makes us entertained. The last thing players want to feel in a game is to feel useless, bored, or frustrated (without a payoff). Alongside this, in a game like this, vs skill-ceiling capability (or “competitive viability”) may matter less, as there is a large variety of skill levels to feast upon which inevitably weaken the strong (but in a way, being good at targetting low-skilled players IS competitive viability here).
Not too capable - Uniqueness of playstyle and counterplay (thus bringing real and noticeable depth to choice and alternatives, as well as creating greater emergent gameplay when interacting with other elements of the game), having counterplay that exists and is systematic, interesting/varied, and/or strong (thus bringing positive depth to the enemy without “stepping on their toes”, effectively harming the depth and enjoyment of the game for the enemy with little benefit - this isn’t fight 1 xeno simulator, it’s fight groups with groups on 2d map simulator). You should expect to be able to fight something when you understand the counterplay (so feasible counterplay must exist - this can include with groups though, as marines are supposed to work together more. This is in effect, meeting “the skill requirement” to “outskill” your opponent), and vice versa.
The reason i think this is a better way to quantify niche balance is because it’s more structured in the context of the game and easier to come to a agreeable, real conclusion with, as silly as that is to say for opinions and arbitrarily applied definitions
In terms of layers of counterplay too - both sides should have the ability to use their layers of counterplay to create complex interactions that can be deduced and puzzled through in many situations, thus hopefully unveiling a higher depth of pvp combat as players understand new layers of counterplay (and thus become more skilled at playing against the enemy) which is a core and valuable part of the gameplay loop’s replayability.
Removing cooldown does not fit identity of niche - And warrior tangent
A case of too capable might be warrior with 7 tile lunge - having a 10 second cd ability alongside lunge and fling and range and allies is just naturally incredibly synergestic and powerful. There is fun if theres one warrior, since the warrior can be spaced or countered by your own allies, but once theres too many it effectively becomes a game of if the warriors make a mistake, and thus is too uncounterable and high-pressure at its skill ceiling (especially since there is 9 bazillion prime warriors - it was largely high-pressure BECAUSE of how safe people played to counter it as there wasn’t many options of counterplay available - you can’t just tank a warrior lunge or chase it into a stack or destroy its buildings or claim info superiority over it and generally have enough resources to dismantle its group if it makes a mistake based on misinfo - mainly because all of this is also very demanding and punishing for the general marine, as warriors can easily -1 stronger targets first, or simply play safe until enemy makes mistake and claim advtg with permas, caps, and effectively general resource superiority over small group combat.).
That is warrior’s playstyle/identity.
With 4 tile lunge, it added direct and obvious counterplay. This is a mostly unrelated comparison because it has completely different and proven factors which went into this decision. But base prae’s entire playstyle is being uncounterable, and being constant, undeniable pressure w/ counterplayable area control extra dps/ttk abilities. Which is why its power should be limited from being bursty - it doesn’t fit the identity of the caste’s niche (reduces the skill required for skillshots) and gives it some very powerful options
Base prae is powerful + Burstiness doesn't have good counterplay in this case
In the case of base prae, getting bursted down instantly with 5 stacks is boring and unfightable (you can’t even pressure them away). That’s why it’s important to limit how fast they can apply their stacks, limit from where they can apply their stacks, and limit when they can apply their stacks (or, other counterplays like making it more slow and glass cannon-y) (Base praes choose engagement and have a LOT of priority when escaping, and this is one of the most powerful things in the game as it means you can be effectively immune to chases if you have your layers of counterplay set up, and thus are very free positionally).
Prae is provably viable
I don’t think prae needs an upgrade balance-wise because it’s always fun and always (decently) balanced. There is always something you can do while playing it because its ranged, and very very capable. In output, if you are good at the caste it is very viable (especially defensively, in ranged situations, on flanks or as solo, with teammates it’s incredible too). Prae outputs a constant, easy to apply, safe, and large net of undeniable and overwhelming ranged pressure, while many other castes output with long-term, slow (but bursty, high-value) and deniable (easy to counterplay) pressure (frags and fracs).
But often, the constant, undeniable pressure can be provably useful in many many situations, especially with teammates, meaning it’s provably viable. Not that base prae doesn’t have slash dmg too.. it can hold its own and frac too if somebody wants to challenge it or if it needs to followup on teamwork. Its spit dmg is very strong and kills incredibly fast if the target is unprepared (but not as long-term, as it doesn’t frac and is easy to resurrect, nor a gauranteed kill in many situations if you start fighting them at edge of screen or in unfavorable terrain for example).
imo oppre sucks yap sesh
Oppressor is not even comparable to base prae because they are 2 different playstyles and niches, and arguably oppressor is way shittier then base prae (design-wise) because it stacks everything into a much more situational ability that is easy to dodge without something keeping them in place or making them predictable. It’s only good because of instant cap with carrier or allies - it’s completely unfun to fight and imo not very fun to play.
But I like different gameplay then oppressors, so im just hating with no rational basis… I’m just predicting how oppressor might play really. I’m sure at it’s skill ceiling theres some interesting tricks especially with good teammates, but if you mitigate the enemies counterplay to its singular ability it will be effectively unfightable without risking a coinflip instaperma chance. As it’s played normally it isn’t that much of a problem though because there is obvious counterplay… you might get grabbed with a higher probability in a crowd tho, and counterplay being player rng check isn’t enjoyable but can be mitigated to some degree in many situations.
imo vguard is op
Vguards kit is completely overtuned in general. 3 second cd on impale aswell as having vguard dash + fling is incredibly good and it’s only rly kinda “balanced” by its range and setup being a counterplay option (even then, it is severely lacking in counterplay, especially without m37). It feels too tanky for how quickly it can hit and run.
But it’s also a completely different niche from base prae, and not comparable. Base prae is good for what it is as well as good relative to other castes.
It helps the gameplay loop by
- Introducing QOL, less “clunky”, more modern/streamlined/responsive, and thus more fun.
- Makes prae directly more capable, and thus more fun
So I think - this pr harms the gameplay loop’s replayability by
- Makes prae too capable (less fun and less unique counterplay, but higher presence)
- Reduces its identity (individual/emergent depth)/uniqueness
- Prae is already provably viable and capable - thus is unnecessary in those fields
Arguable/opinionated things might be
- Prae is already fun (I think so because its viable, capable, has depth of options and is useful in many situations, has a unique playstyle that appeals to players who master it, etc.)
- In reasoning, introduces a precedent that encourages vague and biased powercreep. The main benefit of the PR is QOL imo.
Overall I think it negatively impacts the game’s design and reduces depth of options for the purpose of QOL - I don’t think the QOL is worth it in this case, as its acid spray is already fast and the windup serves a valuable purpose in preventing burstyness and thus creating counterplay, as well as works for creating a unique identity of the caste which isn’t just big spitter. QOL would be good here if acid spray windup was significantly unfun, outdated, or clunky - and it isn’t IMO.
).