Nerf Stims / Remove or Adjust (Just get em fixed)

Stims have been overpowered for a while and its becoming an issue with the all powers they can hold into single injector which also lasts for really long time they need to adjust some balancing to it. I mean a endgame injector that makes you immune to stuns, anti-impregnation, resurrection, being fast as runner, internal and body healling, bonefix. all at once which also has OD limit of 40? Doesn’t sound even balanced a bit. Like heres a quote from a random round to summarize current state of stims, “stimmed marine dragged and hugged goes from pain crit to full health in 10 seconds”

They shouldn’t be able to adjust recipe for easier production, should be randomized and stay as its and the OD limit should be low so it doesn’t take ages to run out.

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My take on nerfing the stims is to:

  1. Nerf their quantity: make stims with strong properties (such as MST and NST) and with high level (NGN/ACR on high levels basically can outheal all incoming attacks) require LIMITED ingredients. For example, xeno blood. If marines could run out of stims and if stims gave them only a temporary edge, this would lead to a better experience. Currently it’s possible (unlikely, but technically possible) to completely run out of ammo. But it’s impossible to run out of stims as soon as you made an easy enough recipe. This is the cornerstone issue with stims IMO.
  2. Make stims less independent again. Strong properties should be only found on colony by IOs. Marines should be rewarded with stims for doing side objectives (looking for intel), not for doing what they are already doing either way (killing xenos). Given research got some more other stuff to do, making exactly stims rely on other departments should be more than fine.

P.S. Also defib stim is just silly, it probably should lose 10u each time it revives the person. Because it take literal minutes to finally kill a man with this stuff in blood.

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the values on Moves chempoint gain away from biomatter. Second try. by TheManWithNoHands · Pull Request #8079 · cmss13-devs/cmss13 · GitHub are a bit overtuned which is why the stims were so powerful

Honestly, i’m waiting for KiVts to rework botany for Research Rework Part Two: The Contract System. by kiVts · Pull Request #7023 · cmss13-devs/cmss13 · GitHub so that it gets played again.

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i still dont understand why the pr that just limited stims into one property (either nst or mst) never went through, it solved alot of the issues.

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Sorry do you mind extrapolating on this I’ve played researcher before and pretty sure you can’t have NST and MST on the same chem from the simulator or can you relate the other one in afterward? I’ve never done that before so I wouldn’t know

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Now honestly, that aint such a bad idea

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encourages meta-picking fraggers to stim up instead of buffing the team as a whole

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In general I think stims need to be reworked personally. I think the idea behind research is to act as a force multiplier not to innately overcome mechanics through pushing properties to the limit. So maybe stims can instead be used as an emphasis what already is in the game.

Ex:
MST gives same or increased speed off weeds but on hive weeds not only is the speed negated the speed reduction is increased even more
(Like wise a property that does the opposite that negate speed debuff on weed but instead that applies it off weed)

Another could be any of the healing types but while it’s still in your body you’re twice as susceptible to said damage type

Lastly something like hyperdensification can be replaced with fractures don’t negatively impact you for a while but you bleed more

My reasoning behind these changes would be that they’re force multipliers meant to get marines to maintain pressure on xenos by keeping marines still on the front but not overpowering base mechanics in the game to make them invincible. This can be done through delaying the need for marines to go back to medbay for proper treatment, allow marines to use core concepts of clearing weeds and breaching locations rather than ignoring whatever xenos advantage has, or overcoming certain limitations (such as fractures) at the cost of resource (like blood). However take my points with a huge grain of salt as I’m mainly an auxiliary player rather than frontline so my points might be out of touch.

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sorry let me rephrase as that was posted at like 6 am after that slog round,
NST shouldn’t remove all stuns and instead how it should work is :

NST gets broken down into two properties instead where one of them only prevents neurological stuns such as screech (it gives you a headache) neuro’s from queen and sentinels. and other boiler stuff.
And you cant put both in the same stim
While the second property only removes physical stuns such as warriror lunges etc
this would also mean we need to remove neuroshielding obv

This would still give a very powerful chemical to marines, becasue most stims arent stun counters only anyway, while giving xenos a chance to change castes and fight back.

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Last time I tried stims it went like that:

  • Push warrior into the eggs
  • Get a warm, loving hug
  • Be eaten by a prae
  • Wake up 5 seconds later
  • Stab him until he spits you out
  • Stand up in 0.001 seconds, fully healed
  • Try to plab them
  • Realize that your shotgun is empty
  • Slowly reload while they slash and spit
  • Buckshot them to death
  • Return shipside for abortion

Stims are ridiculously unfair and unfun to play against, and I don’t think we can nerf them without making them meraderm+. We’d better just cut them out, along with OT, but that’s not happening, period

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  • Give stim properties side effects to prevent abuse (heart palpitations, muscle tearing, possible brain damage)

  • Limit the amount of properties that can be put into a custom chem as to prevent stacking one billion properties in a single stim (4 max)

  • Forbid combining MST/NST (this was really removed???)

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No, apperantly combining wasnt removed i had just confused what i just suggested as an idea being an actual thing.

I dont think drawbacks to stims are fun or a good idea, i think the power of stims being drained to have less effects with more counters is the drawback. But these are what i would have as a person who plays marine or xeno not somebody who plays research.

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What I mean by drawback, is that they should only start kicking after a set amount of stimulants were metabolized. (Let’s say 100u for an example)

This would allow you to make full use of stims at first, but let’s say after your fourth injection or pill suddenly your body starts feeling the side effects of pushing itself to it’s limits like that.

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If stims become a thing in a round, it should be easy to mass produce. Because that will prevent metabuddy robustos getting all the glory. Imagine if any player role could choose who gets to be SG, who gets to be Spec and such.

The only way stims (and OT) ever become well balanced: It is them being a predefined and standarised. This won’t happen like ever.
Because we have a system that allows experimentation as this is the only thing that is engaging for Researchers and OT. With predefined presets you have barerly more job than Normandy pilot few years ago, just pushing few buttons.

The other way to make stims (and OT) more, or less balanced: Take a look at your good ol’vanilla SS13 genetics.
Stuff has to be random, so that you can’t “discover” something super strong and then copy-paste it into the next completly unrelated rounds. From that point it should be just a numbers game to balance it further. Maybe some positive effects in the same body at the same time will cause major downsides, or maybe something else.

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