Although im aware that Warnowiid dinoflagellates do have an eye like ocelloid and of alge such as Chlamydomonas have their eyespot and 2 verifiable behaviors towards light (given their two flagellum) and bacterias such as Cyanobacterium Synechocystis which, surprisingly, uses the whole cell as a lens, similar to eukaryotic volvocine algae. And that Boquila trifoliolata (vines) have been shown to actually mimic the shape of artificial leafs, even without gene transfer as first thought. Could this mean that Boquila trifoliolata does actually have plant-specific ocelli, such as those of Warnowiid dinoflagellates or Cyanobacterium Synechocystis have working in syncrony with the rest of the plant? I think this could be an interesting hypothesis, given that for example, excluding stomata guard cells, leaf epidermis cells do not support any kind of photosynthetic chloroplasts even tho their position is the best given that they reside at the exterior of the leafs. Idk i think it could be a possibility but ofc we then would expect to find such example on the Boquila trigoliolata in the future since i have not find any papers recording such cell existing, and then we suppose the communication of cells is good enough to mimic plants.
What does the community think of this?
I do aknowledge this does not really have any empirical backing given that there hasnt been as far as I know observed plant specific ocelli on Boquila trifolilata, but i think it could be interesting to suggest and look into. I dont really think the mimicking abilities the plant presents are from biochemical origin, or at the very least I dont see it being that, im open to change opinion tho. Ill put some schemas so that this is a bit more usual.
and anothe schema of leaf epidermis cells not supporting any kind of photosynthetic chloroplasts
Im still trying to figure out how does intercellular information transfer work to try and see how, if they exist, would plant-specific ocelli in Boquila Trifoliolata work and actually mimic the leafs around them. I cant speak on that yet
nah man I wanna be a philosophy major, this is just a tangent i took because someoen told me plants see, and feel pain, so i took it for myself to start doing some research (and because its funny to post this in a ss13 forum)
Yes i think the admittedly scarce evidence indicates “plant vision” isn’t unfeasible; at least when i approach this after putting on my comparative anatomy hat versus botanist hat
Broadly understood, plant dermis doesnt usually contain (Large) chloroplasts because exposure to UV would damage them to nonfunctionality; mediation via dermis is also majorly passive, it requires different energy use and what is required is done by Small chloroplasts
There’s few papers on this plant sp because it’s not commercially significant
Natural plant auxins are woefully understudied and have only started gaining scientific traction in the past 10 years. Stay tuned and one day your thesis questions about conjugation and biomolecular roles of auxins may soon be answered…my questions on MY favorite plant auxin got answered in…2019.
RNA would enter the plasmodesmata or something of a cell in the vine and move from one cell to another. Potentially one cell generates encoding for certain auxins and then sends it to other cells and the overall growth pattern of the plant changes. Whether this is initiated by ocelli “seeing” or exogenously generated genetic material (from another plant) is what is yet to be determined. Algae (as a “simple” eukaryote) is pretty notorious for intercellular transfer, it’d be interesting to see genetic studies on how taxonomically close boquila is to algae
Tldr nobubby in science care about plant…UNTIL NOW !!!
Mods, acid goop this man. And me.
EDIT: okay bonus 6. A lot of cell-mediated processes for complex behaviors involve multiple redundant pathways; perhaps the plant sees, smells, feels, senses other plants and does it based off all that feedback. I don’t think it’s far-fetched to suggest it’s Not Just One Thing, but “seeing” wouldn’t look much like we imagine it.
Broadly understood, plant dermis doesnt usually contain (Large) chloroplasts because exposure to UV would damage them to nonfunctionality; mediation via dermis is also majorly passive, it requires different energy use and what is required is done by Small chloroplasts
This is also an idea I was toying around with, honestly it makes sense to me but, wether that also could be exploited to turn into a lens like what the dinoflagellates use it wouldnt seem so weird.
As for papers being scarce, I can attest for that it seems its not that looked into. I have two from where i mainly took the information I will put them here too. They were
Given that both are coauthered by Frantisek one prob should be cautious to not accept teh given conclusion super easily.
As for your fith point im glad you had a response, I dont know currently that much about intercerllular information exchange and its definetly something that would be neccesary. I will look more into your response. At the very least here Frantisek does seem to belive very much that it is from the vine actually “seeing” tho i think its important to mention even authors from other papers (“Gianoli,E.and Carrasco-Urra, F.(2014)Leaf mimicry in a climbing plant protects against herbivory.Curr.Biol.24, 984–987”) do say they dont agree to say such mimicry is actually a product of vision
Along this train of thought, sensitive mimosa might also be of interest to you. Instead of being photosensitive, it “feels”. Similar kinds of questions about intercellular information transfer are posed there
Mind me, also, when discussing intercellular info transfer, i focused on genetic info.
Molecular information is the intelligent maintenance of memory by molecules. So in the case of mimosa, this is done ionically with calcium (not unlike a muscle contraction), and that is a form of info transfer.
Though I like transgenesis as a theory or a part of the theory better the world is a very strange place, and it does indeed happen for other rxns. At a very rudimentary level, plants can “see” enough to know in which direction they should grow, so I still don’t think it’s all too farfetched to imagine some very complex processes behind that.
To your comment on the dermis being without chloroblasts potentially allowing more photosensitive interactions, i did think of that too. No idea where to place that theory though without understanding taxonomy of algae/bacteria and dinoflagellates that express that; i am not microbiologist…
EDIT: wdym CM SS13 Forums isnt Cellular and Microbio Science Social Forums
Im not sure what to think of this, photosensitive cells/structures on small animals (and apparently plants) is certainly not new but I think this is a bit too early to call this an eye. Usually, the development of eyes is followed by a nervous system (and usually the better the vision, the better the nervous system as to be able to process the environment) which of course plants do not have.
If this is indeed an eye-like structure, i’d be more interested in how it would transmit information through the plant. Would it be a similar system to auxin as in with phototropism-gravitotropism or would it be something else?
Yes im trying to do more research on how the whole information transfer and processing happens. I dont think itd be similar to auxin, althought cant say. I dont imagine it would be such as a hormonal information system, ive heard and read superficially studies that compare certain plant cells to human neurons, ofc thats a bit reach and ive read others that call them out on it but its certainly an interesting idea.
As far as im aware unless we are treating with a cliver mechanism to actually like detect shape somehow id imagine if one is to go with the “eye” idea we would need to suggest some processing of information. As for now ive just been looking into how plant cell synthesize hormonones and learning more about auxin it doesnt seem to me that it would grant such complex behavior as we can observe in vines, although ofc I dont claim anything here. If I do find something interesting I will post it here but ive just been relearning chemistry a bit since im a bit rusty in it
there’s no point having neurones if you have no electrically-sensitive effectors for which to send signals to, i don’t see any way other than hormonal through which plants could process information
Don’t tell me it’s the 1990s CIA experiment where the guy in charged sticked the lie detectors on leaves and claimed it showed brain waves identical to human being, which can never be replicated iirc.
If not, then sure you can try reading up some Buddhism scriptures on plants also living beings.
When we cut grass, the grass release a smell to warn other of danger. We always say, god damn, i love the smell of grass that have been cut. I always picture a neighbourhood with many houses and its grass literally in hell. Ahhh danger danger! And i find that hilarious.
The GLVs responsible for the smell of freshly cut grass play a role in plant communication and plant defence against herbivory, functioning as a distress signal warning other plants of imminent danger and, in some instances, as a way to attract predators of grass-eating insects..
Honestly its cm. Grass send out a distress signal.
the world is a very strange place, and it does indeed happen for other rxns. At a very rudimentary level, plants can “see” enough to know in which direction they should grow, so I still don’t think it’s all too farfetched to imagine some very complex processes behind that.