Can you explain to me what this thread is about as if I was a 5 year old?
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Queen starts immature (has 500 hp, no armor, no combat abilities, etc.) but becomes mature around the hive core (becomes a normal Xeno queen). What some queens have done is make the hive core to become mature, and have 6 drones with them to hunt survs (after 60 seconds of leaving the core they return to immature and lose the buff permanently to gain it through hive core), and gets “easy caps” with a combination of screech and neuro spit. Survivors also cannot shoot back at them since every damage instance against queen extends the mature timer by 15 seconds each, letting her go for more.
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O wow thats a weird mechanic. Hope that gets patched out, i think its fine for 1 minute bcus that means u can only really respond at tunnels and like REALLY fast metarushes and leave urself vulnerable. But if it refreshes then that just creates a very weird, metaknowledge dynamic where survs aren’t supposed to shoot?
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I mean. I kinda think it is slightly funny that a mechanic intended to protect against an extremely niche situation that only happens at 3 AM, 1-3 times a year, has already been abused so much over 48 hours that it may or may not have made up for the half decade.
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Where is something I said being construed to mean it’s intended for queen to leave the hive to assault survivors? What is intended is for queen to be able to chase survivors e.g. they attack hive and then retreat. It’d be wise for queen to only engage them while they engage her (thus the extension if she takes damage) or until she feels the time remaining is long enough for her to return to the hive.
I am very disappointed to find out queens were self inflicting damage just so they could make the distance to some survivor hold though so will be addressing that today in Queen temporary maturity tweaks & Misc evolution tweaks by Drulikar · Pull Request #10567 · cmss13-devs/cmss13 · GitHub but it’s not going to make it impossible for queens to try to do this. In general I dislike rules that force players to play a certain way. I would rather mechanics encourage players to play a certain way, so I’m making ovi evo requirement faster so the entire hive is missing out on boosted evo should queen not ovi.
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Thank you very much. Cheers.
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Holy gamer clip though that shits actually impressive lol
My two cents is that this is the result of the lack in oversight of surviors. This mechanic was clearly born from hivediving survivors who’ve decided the role is little more than being pre-drop marines with no punishment for said behavior making it more of the norm.
As if xenos don’t have enough to deal with when the actual marines drop, now you get humans running at supersonic speed while the hive has only drones and maybe defenders slamming into the hive trying to end the round before it starts.
I think this thread is incorrectly aimed at the symptom, and not the root cause. Survivors don’t have enough restrictions to make them be…ya know, colonists fearing for their lives and just trying to survive until the marines arrive, so you get stuff like this which creates a lot more issues.
The screech shouldn’t exist so early in the round because then you can get abuse of it like this, but neither should survivors be actively running down xenos or charging into the hive. One bad turn begets another in this case.
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It was born from the handful of rounds where that has actually even happened, then people coding in something for an issue that wasn’t ever really an issue. Which has in turn caused another even bigger issue which affects the round even more, and more so on regular rounds, not just ultra low-pop-rounds where the hive-dives would happen. It’s almost impossible to rush the hive on high-pop.
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You know, you could have indestructible super-slow weeds appearing around ovied Queen in a big radius (30 tiles, or more, disappearing when marines land) which would solve the issue, can’t be abused, good detterent, can’t be used on offensively and such.
Instead we got this band-aid that anyone with two brain cells could corectly foresee that will cause issues.
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Not saying it happens constantly. But that it happened at all showed a major problem with the survivors that needed fixing, except that it got possibly the worst fix ever with an abusable mechanic like this.
I had it in my original post before the edit but this whole thing probably could have been avoided in the first place if survivors actually had to act like people fearing for their lives and just trying to survive until first drop. As it is, still plenty of time to amend the rules for that because it’s better late than never to fix these things. But instead we just get early queen screech for some reason.
Give me your door closing macro.
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well the reason why survs act like that instead of colonist fighting for their lives is simple. Because surv is so nail bittingly hard and in xnos favor you need to kill as many as you can. Survs need to be powerful and evne then they still dont survivie till first drop. Every drone you kill is one less t3 that will attack you later. Plus you’r powerful so why not it’s easy. Hey why not kill the queen too.
Just saying it goes even deeper then what you think. If survs had a easier to hold spot and got a nerf to open area combat then maybe none of this would be an issue.
might be out of the scope of this discussion, but I think surv has historically been such a weird pain point for balance. So much has to be changed and arragnged for them to exist in a way that makes sense and isnt too strong and its like…why are we even doing this to this degree?
Fighting survs is fun, playing survs is fun. It’s important to design to keep the game fun, even if Surv vs Xeno is a different game then Marine vs Xeno. And honestly, there hasn’t been much surv changes in the last few years, molotovs existed unnerfed for a LONG time before people got around to fixing it as a big example (and im sure they’re still probably the most annoying thing on the planet). Most surv changes r just ppl who like the gameplay of the role and want to add new stuff.
Theres a lot of stuff in the role that’s legacy, shitty game design though (and the role could be made a lot LOT better and more suitable for everyone). And that’s also a symptom of how noone wants to work on them. But it hangs on because its unique and adrenaline-fueled gameplay keeps long-term players coming back to the game for more - it doesn’t need a lot of maintaining to keep that spirit, even if it loses that spirit sometimes. All the work to create it is already done, and even if it gets bloodied and bruised and left on its own, it’ll keep surviving.
Honestly one of the biggest reasons for removing survs (kinda unrelated to balance) might just be, what if a map maker doesn’t want to design for surv gameplay ontop of marine gameplay while they’re making a new map? Sure it will give a lot of hours of fun to someone, but the hours of effort to amount of people satisfied is a lot less. But I think surv gameplay naturally works well with good maps, survs honestly are the ones who appreciate map design the most, and survs will find terrain that suits them even if terrain isnt built to suit them (further, areas that heavily advantage survs would heavily advantage marines too, thus they are in a way, putting work in to test maps a lot more thoroughly then marines). I think survs existing are worth the effort that goes into them. Further, we don’t need an excess of maps (so there’s less point in making them super duper efficient to create), we just want high quality passion projects because our current ones have infinite gameplay anyway. And honestly, the things we should do first are make map designing tools to make it more efficient instead of remove gameplay to make it so there’s less to do.
If one day CM becomes super duper lowpop and almost noone plays (like, 20 players or less), we’ll love how we have survivor as a role to make a new gamemode around.
This sounds unfun and anti-gameplay. Survs play to survive mostly, and surviving doesn’t leave a lot of room for talking. Enforced fear rp would just remove survivor as a gameplay object and would be kinda hamfisted and annoying. Noone wants to be told they have to play a game they enjoy in a way they don’t enjoy.
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Crowbar and left click, King
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