I didn’t mean it by REMOVE ANTI STUN STIMS WAAAAAA
I meant just restrict how far the anti stuns can go to like level 3-4 instead of 5-10
Like if research makes anti stun good on them we should have it but we should not have it at the point no xeno can properly use their abilities due to them recovering instantly
at level 4 NST it’s literally impossible for the marine to be tackled by any caste unless they get minimum tackles, the only way to confirm caps is with hugger traps/eggs. it’s impossible to solo cap at that point
The Platinum medal rifleman that has been playing since 2019 finally getting his hands on the end game stim, he loads up his favorite shotgun with some buckshot and straps a MK2 on his back. As he dashes through the forest at speeds a runner could only hope to achieve in their dreams, he absolutely fucking obliriates the xeno front, he dashes, shoots from one side to the other, warriors freeze in fear when he gets up the moment he is grabbed.
There is no hope.
It’s so over. Glory to marine major
I call it earnd because it is. I dare you to go on a private server and play reserach there and consitantly make a good stim. With nobody else to help in any way. Just because you in the lab doesnt have to gaher and haul all your shit up to your gucci armchair, doesnt mean its easy.
Wich is my main problem with stim complains. “They only have to press some buttons. its too easy to make stims.”
Research is only one part of making a stim. There are many other roles and things that are necessary to let a stim hit groundside. And every other part of that chain is a lot of work. The only part that isnt is the last stop, research.
So i get why you think its unearnd if you only look at research.
The part that research is too easy i have to agree on though. But its not from “MST to OP please nerf” Its from being to simpel overall. Most fun i had in research was figuring out how to make defi work. Wich i honestly think would be best, that more propertys interact with each other.
Its easy to make something hard, but that wont make it better. That will only make it less fun. And to just nerf the propertys is the less fun way.
It’s not earned in the slightest. It’s just, again, a waiting game. What exactly is hard here? Even if we imagine that all IOs are dead and no one is going to bring you vials, which is, let’s be fair, happens not too often, usually you’ll get vials and grants from the colony. And besides IOs there is no one you can capitalise from. CL can give you 3 credits I guess. You don’t need other researchers, you can do everything solo.
Even if you don’t get vials (again, not very realistic scenario, I get vials even on deadpop with barely any IOs), you still can get good properties from botany and clearance. Botany is a bit tedious, but not hard in the slightest. Clearance is just about luck. I yet to have a round where I find neither MST nor NST, usually I find both, and if I don’t I find at least one of them. Which is enough to break the game.
So please explain me, what is so hard about research? What is “earned” about it? I am already a silver researcher, as soon as you understand basic mechanics and learn to game the system, it becomes brain-dead easy.
Do you really play research? You only need IOs for vials and grants, and even then it’s just a bonus. Who else do you need? Req? You can just drop stims on Alamo and that’s it. You don’t need anyone. At all. Again, only role you capitalize from is IO. But even IO is not exactly necessary.
Unless you are implying that marines need to stale for long enough, but this is a weird line of thought.
MST is OP, NST is OP. This is just truth. I understand your bias, but if you think for a second you should understand that you never “earned” complete negation of enemy abilities. Xenos played for two hours too, and they are rewarded with “totally earned” godstims. Does it really sound fair to you in the slightest?
Finally, research doesn’t really need fucking godstims. You have some good properties besides MST and NST. You can make bonemending and anti-parasitic, you can make cool flamer mix, you can make greenos, you can make new healing chems, even HDN is not as broken. But because meta is godstims and because they are so broken, there is no reason to spend credits on anything else.
I wish there was more interesting properties too, but NST and MST must go. Not even limit them, just throw them out the window.
Best part of NST and MST, is that you don’t need a single randomly generated chemical for those properties. You literary just need a runner body, and pheromone plasma.
I’ve also seen people who just mix the runner plasma with nutrition, and you get a 6 MST stim for basically free.
Ok, this is a long one. But i want to make sure no one missunderstands me and maybe learns a bit.
There are some rounds were you just dont get jackshit… wich made those rounds boring as all heck. But that really happens very rarly. But my point about this was that with NO ONE helping you, research is at a pretty poor spot.
Because stuff you can only get from others are:
If you where to play research with zero interaction from anyother player, other researchers included you would get one Synthesis that can give points, the three chems from plants (There are only max three plant chems each round)
No MST nor NST (Xeno blood only, random chems dont give it), 4 synthesis papers that wont give points but only propertys (the one you print out dont give points) with only 2 of the 4 not requiring xenoblood wich makes them worthless unless you have said blood, and very very little points. Without the extra points from grands, new chems and dead xenos, you wont be abel to make such a great chem. If you only put like 3-4 propertys in maybe, honestly when you happen to be in such a round dont try a stim. Focus on making OT something fancy. Cheaper and always abel to make.
Half of IOs job is to get reserach shit to work. I belive that the results of their work is very much earnd.
I do, here is proof i can sit on my ass for a long while.
And proof i can competently sit on my ass for a long while.
Its easy to think Stims are just MST and NST, because thats the only thing you directly see. But there is a reason why you dont give out cata+tram injectors as stim and call it a day. (cata has mst6 btw, so it would absolutly fluffing work if it where enough) NGN, ACR, PNK, HDN, BNM, OXG and the such, the healing propertys make a stim a stim. And they get often dummy strong because said healing is amplefied by he legendary propertys BST and REG. Like those two are in all the god stims for a reason. I argue REG is by far more OP then MST or NST could ever dream to be. But yes, making a stim without at least MST is dumb, it is very strong. And most importantly, attracts the ungas to use em.
I would suggest to you to study the propertys page on the wiki then a bit. There are a lot of interesting things to learn on there. Like wich chemicals work on touch, wich on humans/synths/xenos, or wich you can easily get but not via random chem.
For exampel, the wiki has next to each property the rarity. That is only for the random chem papers, wich means if there stands “disabelt” you can still get it. Case and point OXG, thats just from scanning Dex. Wich, did you know that Dex+ is just a better version of dex? No fancy property uniqe to it. And its only OXG 6. Also, people can survie with Dex+ in there system even with only1% blood and are totally fine. But insta die when they hit zero(i learnd that from injecting an SO during a lifeboat siege :D. No they did not know.)
So yeah… OXG 6+ and HMG 1 and IB is round removed. Artifical blood, baby!
To be fair, this is not just a handy tipp but also a point to show you that you can do very creative shit in research, and that is what makes stims truley god stims. Not MST or NST. Being creative.
But again, i do agree that research needs a rework. I am very excited about some things in the currently worked on rework (And fucking terrified that some people want to remove the whole property system, that is something very uniqe to CM. Dont get rid of that man.) Its not easy, but just very simpel. Makes it rather boring. Research has to much waiting and MST and NST are a tad strong. But removing them is hilariously bad of a fix. They are not that OP that they deserve a complet remove. Honestly what @unknown920 suggested migth be the best fix while keeping it fun.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk
TL;DR
IOs matter. ECHO members are the most handsome there is. Stims are unbalanced but not to the point where you need to mald so hard.
Stims fucking suck
Maybe if other properties were as good as MST and NST, we wouldn’t have so many researchers just rushing it every round.
Flamer mix is useless, as incinerator tanks are capped at 30 duration and 40 damage which is only slightly better than normal flamer fuel (20 duration 30 damage), costs a significant ammount of credits.
Anti-Xeno properties such as corrosive, neurocryogenic, neurotoxic, etc, are too weak, last way too little, affect marines much harder incase of FF and get diluted way too much in smoke to be worth producing AND you still need to pray that there is an OT to make the grenades for you.
Bonemending is a great property however it’s pure RNG whether or not you obtain it in a round, Anti-Parasitic is way too situational and niche to bother making, how many marines actually get hugged and survive to go get larva surgery? probably less than 10 in a round.
Healing properties are only good if paired with other properties such as hyper-densificating or defibrillating, you aren’t gonna be able to just tank slashes and survive, besides, UNGA already heals pretty good.
Greenos are cool but if you have eggs hive is probably already dead and round is gonna end soon (unless you get lucky vials).
DDI is a meme and you can’t even experiment with it cause its ruled as LRP to use it on yourself or another willing marine/researcher (monkeys can’t get diseases so it doesn’t work with them).
got a great idea out of this. Monkeys that get DDI get turned into lessers (ghosts get 1 minute to join it).
ignoring all the useless yapping here i’m going to agree - good stims are op
i don’t care how hard it is to get a good stim - it should definitely be nerfed to something that won’t disable stuns and give you runner speed
It would be nice if you guys kept ideasguys threads actually informative and on topic, instead of attacking the original poster. Us contributors are looking here for ideas, and replies like “coping” and other memes just waste our time.
@Yellows there is a research update proposed in another topic. I suggest checking that out regarding stimulants.
people are memeing because the original post is a salt post that brought nothing constructive to the table other than restating an issue that is already being worked on
No one is working on research rework lol
if u dont want to fight stims stop being a delaylien and end the round
interesting.
what would be the maximum level for each MST and NST if we don’t want them being “toxic” to play againt’s?
NST 3? MST 4?
Im pretty sure once you reach level 5 you recover from stuns within a second or two. (From what i’ve seen on the field so far)
Level 3 would probably be the most balanced but im not entirely sure.
for some reason, the idea that ‘warrior combo stops working! this is toxic!’ amuses me greatly, thank you for this sensible chuckle you have provided, king.
instead of restricting levels you could probably just halve the power of mst and nst once again
remove anti stun stims*
or you could make individual xenos immune to stuns if they live for an hour, balanced. 