Sentinel Kit Rework

Development Ideaguys
1

Hey kids, Smog here. Anyhow I wanted to get some feedback on the proprosed sentinel kit, especially from established xeno players who have some hours on sentinel without being forced to.

Summary

→ Abstract <.

Sentinel is in a bad spot and even that is an understatement with the role currently in a limbo between being utterly worthless or a stun duration increase of 1 second away of being the best capper in the game, with the marine on the receiving side being absolutely unable to fight it in any way possible. This makes sentinel perhaps THE most difficult T1 to balance as the alternative will always be the caste being utterly useless and unfun to play, or extremely overpowered and unfun to play against.

TGCM solved this issue by having sentinel work around a stacking neurotoxin mechanic that dictates the stun duration as well as rewarding the sentinel for engaging in close range.

→ Goals ←

The idea is to add a unique gameplay loop to sentinel without infringing its core identity of being a stun based capture xenomorph that focuses on debuffing enemies from afar before going in for the final sweep.

→ Non-goals ←

Turn sentinel back into a nightmare caste where it flipflops between overpowered or worthless based on small numerical changes.

→ Content ←

Porting over the TGCM sentinel kit with some adjustments to fit the current CM playstyle.

Passive: Neurotoxin

Neurotoxins work on a stack mechanic, being applied by the two main abilities. The third ability plays off this passive. A marine can only have a maximum of 30 neurotoxin stacks. Neurotoxin stacks apply a weak damage over time effect, for the sake of ease of treatment this would be OXY.

Toxic Spit | 1 Cooldown | Costs: 50 plasma

Applies neurotoxin stacks, as well as applying the already existing slow to marines. The Toxic Spits go over xenomorphs, meaning FF does not affect this spit.

Toxic Slash | 10 Seconds Cooldown | Costs: 100 plasma

Inflicts large amounts of Neurotoxin stacks per slash. Only lasts for either 3 slashes or if the duration of 5 seconds has passed.

Draining Bite | 12 Second Cooldown | Costs: 100 plasma | Active Ability

Stab your victim, draining some Intoxicated stacks and gaining benefits from it. It removes 30% of the current stack amount on use.

Inflicts knockdown. The duration of this knockdown is proportional to the amount of stacks the victim has, minus 1 second. For example; 30 stacks equals 2 seconds, and 15 stacks equals 0.5 seconds. The minimum duration is 0.1 seconds.

Catalytic Shock Tailstab | 10 Second Cooldown | Windup Time: 1 Second

Same behavior as a regular tailstab, with no damage modifier however. Applies following effects

Stab your victim, draining some Intoxicated stacks and gaining benefits from it. It removes 50% of the current stack amount on use.

If the victim is above 20 stacks, this ability will increase armor by 10 and grants the sentinel a small movement speed buff.
Deals a proportional amount of damage. The formula for this damage is: ( Amount of stacks * 6 ) / 5. This translates to a minimum of 1.2 damage and a maximum of 36 damage.

3 Likes
2

It’s been a while since I’ve played tgmc but this looks close to a port of TGMC sentinel TGMC xenos are balanced very differently.

With how CM works, there’s basically no way for a sentinel with 500 hp to close the gap on a marine with a mk2 without getting shredded to use any of their non-spit abilities. And even if you do close the gap you need still stay in melee range for multiple slashes.

I should mention that going from 0 armor → 10 armor is basically nothing, assuming non-AP m2 ammo, if you land this ability at full hp, you get the equivelant of 1 mk2 bullet (12 → 13 to crit) if you are at or under 400 hp it makes no difference to mk2 ammo.

I think we should, just for fun, revert sentinel to its pre-rework state :).

3

Do keep in mind that this is a T1, so getting a little bit of armor is a more preferable reward than something like 20 armor.

Before an TM, testing will be done either way. Speed might have to be adjusted or possible a temporary speed boost to make it more viable to charge in while the clawing effect is active.

4

this fundamentally misunderstands how sentinel is played. It’s a very solo focused view when this is a team based game and you must consider how the caste functions when working with allies. Sentinel is useless without teammates to support and without support from teammates, and that is how it should remain niche-wise probably. I think the way its kit synergizes with other xenos is limited at the moment though, and that it is poorly designed as a team support.

Its stun could be easily buffed if its tackle was nerfed. But i mean its abilities are designed in a way to be sorta, uncounterplayable. You can’t stop a sentinel from hitting you with things in many situations. Getting hit by a 5 second stun does not = fun. Nor does a 10 second slow.

I think largely the reason sentinel is unfun is because its squishy, low dps, and slow playing, even easier to kill then Runner. It feels weak even if it isn’t, because it gets killed so, so easily and it gets easily frustrating to fight stun weapons. And that’s the main thing keeping its abilities from being super duper strong. It tries to pressure but fails because it gets pressured too easily.

And taking ideas directly from tgmc isn’t a good idea too, tgmc balance is fundamentally different from CM. The main similarity between the games is in the shooting mechanics, but the balance and gameplay is completely different

1 Like
5

Sentinel’s kit suffers directly from the intervention of allies, as well as hampering xeno’s attempts to capture due to the unique property of the tackle reset from the sentinel’s stun.
Added onto that is that the slow spit also has FF, so you not only have to play around the fact that your target is moving but also that any ally might inadvertently intercept your projectile.

The tackle sentinel has right now is beyond shit due to how clunky it feels. The combo that currently works the best when you solo capture marines due to the FF present for both the scatterspit and slow spit. We had a situation where all it’s abilities got buffed but that change quickly got reverted as it became too frustrating to fight against for marines.

Fact is that you’ll never see an effective frontline sentinel with the kit it currently posses, the tackle it has is actually beyond shit ( 4/4 ) and factually worse than the tackle chance of something like a spitter or a ravager. Meanwhile backline sentinel relies entirely on luck and preying on people that are walking around solo but even then you have no guaranteed chance to even make a successful capture due to the stun duration combined with it’s tackle chance.

The new stun present is a 2 second stun at the maximum amount of stacks, which is basically the same stun duration as the current paraslash without the added awkwardness of having to hover near the target with the high risk of it just waddling off to an ally. Marines have plenty of time to counterplay considering that a sentinel first needs to even build up the stacks from afar or take the risk and quickly build up stacks by slashing the target.

6

Changing it from funny RNG wetpapertowel into something akin to their T2 able to stall out pushes given skillcap, staying at the right range/using cover effectively sounds like a productive effort at the least. Noone is forcing you to run in and melee as current sent, nor would you be with this one, you can just spit stack.

Gives survs more of a fair fight if they don’t have armor.
+1 even as a sent cast enjoyer.

7

I’m a sentinel main with a shit ton of hours on the caste and honestly this looks like at best a side grade of current sentinel, and more like a nerf, depending on how many stacks each ability applies which isn’t stated here. Btw I’m just basing this on the post as I haven’t played TGCM before. So instead of getting your guaranteed 2 second para slash stun and 0.8s scatter spit stun, you now have to work hard spitting on a single marine just to get a maximum 2s stun. You also lose your ranged stun, so you now have no gap close and are at the mercy of a single shotgun as you try to go into melee range. The most important part of this kit is getting the stun off, meaning the tailstab is useless since you lose half your stacks in exchange for some pretty minimal buffs. Oxy damage is also pretty useless since it isn’t permanent and can get healed easily.

The only main upside I can see is that the knockdown stun is instant instead of the 2s windup of para slash, but imo the ability for current sentinel to use their stuns on demand is much better as both support and solo play than having to target a single marine for a while just to get an impactful stun duration.

Also I just took a quick look at the PR and the plasma costs are insanely high. Keep in mind sentinel only has 400 plasma, so it’ll completely run out after 4 spits and using the two melee abilities once.

1 Like
8

Based on testing solo caps are possible again as sentinel, provided you’re able to get the 30 stacks necessary for the maximum stun duration. Currently each spit adds 3 stacks while each slash adds 7 stacks meaning that to achieve 30 stacks you’ll require 3 slashes and 3 spits in order to stun them or get the maximum usage out of your tailstab.

Sentinel was always balanced around the duration of it’s para stun, the scatter spit while an effective gap closer was also a stun ability that had no effective counter play outside if praying that Moses appears in your game to split the scatter in the middle. This also meant that marines that were fighting a sentinel solo had to deal with a frustrating mid range spit they couldn’t really outplay which would also always lead into a guaranteed para slash.

Besides your gap closer should be the hefty slow on the spit itself, not a RNG stun.

While the armor provided by the tailstab isn’t massive, the speed is arguably the more enjoyable addition to the kit as it gives sentinel a proper way to disengage from a fight should they want to provided they survive the wind-up. The speed they gain from the buff is the same speed-buff spitter gets when they activate their E-Spit.

Personally a caste with plasma resources shouldn’t only have to take notice of it’s plasma resource when off-weeds, this also means that sentinels are more tied in a defensive/supportive role on-weeds rather than being able to basically roam as their current plasma cost for their ability is fairly cheap given how much you need for your abilities.

9

porting TGMCs senti directly would be fire if aiming spits in this codebase wasnt such dogshit (yes i know its a skill issue but good lord it sucks :patrice:)

10

But current sentinel can easily solocap with the para slash, and that’s arguably one of it’s strongest points. With this change now you need to spit the marine a bunch of times and slash them before you can get the same opportunity. Speaking of which, how are you supposed to be able to slash a marine 3 times if they have a shotgun or smg, given you don’t have any stunning abilities to set you up? A sentinel with no stuns is just a worse drone in combat, and even with their 2-tap meme tackle you don’t see many drone caps.

Again, with how much DPS even a single marine has you can’t expect to go in, land 3 slashes, and come out without dying halfway. Speed or slows don’t really matter if the marine can just keep shooting you the whole time. Also scatter spit was a good support tool to get a quick disengage for any of your allies getting chased by marines. It’s also good as a quick punish for any marines out of position that other xenos can capitalize on. With this rework they lose this surprise element, giving the marine ample time to reposition since it’ll take so long to set up the combo. The only real support element it’ll keep is the slowing spit.

I’d argue it’s the opposite. There are already cooldowns on the abilities, and since sentinel is so useless without its abilities there shouldn’t be an increased emphasis on plasma. Also, it’s not fun having to afk and wait 30 seconds to regenerate your plasma every time you use your abilities.

I feel like this idea is cool and has a lot of potential, but as it is I just don’t see how it won’t be a worse version of the current sentinel.

11

Para slash got nerfed to be so that it cannot guarantee a cap anymore, in fact any marine who has a shotgun can just Press E and PB you in the face before you can get your fourth disarm off, especially with them being able to just instantly create distance due to even medium armor being faster than a sentinel. Besides the fact that a caste should have inherent risk attached to a powerful 2 second long stun. Sentinel always felt extremely shitty to play against as a marine due to just having random stuns that you can’t really play around

You create more harm than good by pushing yourself in front of your allies just to get a quick 0.5 stun off that is also capable of being blocked by other xenos. At best you kinda annoy a marine, at worst you bodyblock another xeno and get them killed.

Plasma is a resource and should be handled to balance out castes that have shorter cooldowns. The effective new cooldown of “Para slash” is 5 seconds due to the duration of the slash being 5 seconds.

Fact of the matter is that the reception I’ve gotten from both sides is that it’s a more positive change overall, while numerical changes are one thing, the kit is arguably better to play with and against and helps Sentinel be a ranged supportive caste that has the option for a high risk high reward play by utilizing the draining bite.

12

All stuns in the game work in that way.

That’s how all ranged things in this game and it just is something that can be improved with skill

If the stun was buffed, the tackle has to be nerfed. This is so that you wouldn’t be able to gaurantee a cap alone anymore. You currently still can gaurantee a cap off paraslash (even alone) iirc and the paraslash buff from eons ago was powercreep af and just made it very simple.

Sentinel has a range advantage over other xenos. If it sticks near allies and supports them (if the front isn’t excessively pressured and out of range), it will be effective. But it will naturally do best near weeds because its weak and squishy and stuff. Or with allies who can tank damage and aggro and stun too, to keep the senti safe.

The problem is finding teammates who can focus on working with others and staying near them as Xeno. Many xenos play in a very solo-focused playstyle with team support as a sort of “hey, if im here, ill help you”. Instead of focusing on remaining near team and going out when team goes out, despite that playstyle being much more valuable then playing solo. No kit in this game should be observed exclusively from a solo lens because that makes 0 sense considering the game is a team-based fighting simulator, and groupfights should realistically be the most optimal play into groups (in most situations) irregardless of caste, weapon, etc. Much more fights are winnable with teammates then without.

I think sentinel should just get more tools of team support really and thatd make it more impactful in its job.

I think this is an interesting way of doing things and creates very real pressure. Idk how it’ll turn out. I think 30 stacks is a looot of stacks when marines can just group tank spits. A prae for example takes about 4 spits to kill someone. If this nerfs the slowing spit too, it will probably be a overall nerf to Sentinel because the slowing spit was very strong.

Neuro slash is supposed to b weak to force allies to support sentinel. Its a last resort to say “get away” or to -1 enemy in groupfight. Or secure cap on position break or overextended marine. It gets exponentially stronger with tailstab range

Scatter spit is self defense and ally defense/offense. It has low CD and can hit multiple peolle.

Slow spit is first resort to disable enemies options and make them easy af to kill. Very low cd, very high duration.

13

Ok but that’s what I’m saying. If the current 2 seconds stun of para slash is hard to cap with, how will this be any better? This stun is at MOST 2 seconds, but will also be even shorter if they have less stacks. Plus you need to already melee the marine a bunch of times or spit them a bunch of times just to set up the same 2 second stun. The only advantage here is that the stun is instant instead of 3.5 seconds later, but that’s nullified by the fact that you now need to fight the marine for 5 seconds before you can get enough stacks.

I haven’t played the PR yet so I’m basing this off my experience, but the shorter cooldown won’t matter if you’re at 1% HP after using toxic slash once. Also you still haven’t addressed how sentinel can use their combo without dying. You can try this right now in the main server: Go as sentinel but don’t use the scatter spit and try to go around slashing a marine 4 times (3 for toxic slash, 1 for draining bite). I guarantee if the marine is even semi-competent you’ll die. By the way, if you can slash a marine 4 times, you could have just disarmed and guaranteed a tackle, so what’s the advantage of using all these abilities?

Idk if you’ve asked people who actually play the caste, or just players with 2h of sentinel playtime, but I’m really not seeing the positive change as a sentinel main. I really think the current iteration of this kit won’t work, but maybe that’s just me being too resistant to change.