SG Frontline Mode #7600- Testmerge Feedback

Development Ideaguys
1

Heya guys, it’s kinda hard to glean a lot of opinions about the recent SG testmerge, so I figured I may as well start a forum thread for it (because no one ever uses the PR feedback form).

Based off what others have said, I’ve already lowered frontline mode damage by a flat -2 across precision and AP.

This damage nerf probably isn’t a surprise, but the new blue tracer rounds (for when frontline mode is OFF) is a bit concerning for me. Some people point out that it looks too much like a high-tech energy weapon rather than a tracer, so I wanna hear if there’s any alternatives. Mob outlines are off the table- That was already tried (e.g. Apprehend).

I’d appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

1 Like
2

There have been 22 uses of it in the last 30 days. It is intentional that it is a discussion between maintainers and the PR author for feedback done that way.

Also of note, you are the PR author. If you have concerns with your own PR, address them.

2 Likes
3

Hmmm, I suppose the tracers are less an actual concern than it is just me seeing if other people think it’s a good change. So far, people don’t seem bothered by it, so that’s good, though I do wonder if people have ideas for a better alternative.

Didn’t know the PR feedback forms were actually that well used… that’s my bad.
Do I just get a notification on the forums if someone submits something, or would maintainers have to relay it to me?

1 Like
4

Didn’t know the PR feedback forms were actually that well used… that’s my bad.

Unless it’s the PR author making the post, feedback is almost always ignored.
Dru is smoking crack.

In other words, love the pr! Awesomesauce!

2 Likes
5

I like the new IFF where it stops you from firing at all when friendlies are in front. It is actual IFF at work. I’ve only used it once however and it was in WO so I cannot really give a proper feedback on the damage. However I’d like to see more of this IFF in the future.

1 Like
6

I think you might’ve misinterpreted the feedback forms, there’s a place in the forums you can post feedback for specific PRs.
It’d be quite odd for a PR author to submit a feedback form for their own PR haha

Honestly, I feel like a significant portion of people who would otherwise give feedback are put off by the rather opaque system on the forums (since it’s one-way communication), so I’m not really content with depending solely on that.
I get why it exists though, unpopular public forum feedback posts tend to result in public lynchings of the poor author, while derailing heavily off-topic.
I don’t think the current iteration of the SG PR is controversial enough to make me metatarget priority number 1 though, so I figured it’ll stay civil enough to get something worthwhile from it.

1 Like
7

While I haven’t had the opportunity to use the new sg much, I do like the ideas a lot. Nice work!

I agree. The blue tracer rounds look out of place IMO, although they are a very effective indicator of a SG (which I think is really great gamefeel). I think it’ll look normal once people get used to it.

1 Like
8

Yeah, it was initially jarring since we never had well… non-orange/yellow bullets for USCM firearms before, but I think you’re right. People seem to be getting used to it after the initial surprise.

1 Like
9

Tracers colored in hues other than red/green aren’t an unrealistic thing, it may be jarring but it’s not nonsensical. It’s good. I like it.

And, yeah, tracers look like some star wars shit when they’re colored differently.

1 Like
10

Also gives the gun a more “futuristic” look firering blue bullets. Albeit at the expense of a less “accurate” depiction of it.

1 Like
11

If you have seen IRL trace rrounds you would think Star Wars is real, too.

Different variations of colors are used in tracer rounds for things like anti-air turrets in spaced out intervals (every 10, 50, 100 rounds, etc. one tracer round is fired) to show what a turret is fighting + to show its actually working as intended.

It would make sense for colored tracers on a SG to let your allies know that a SG is firing to differentiate it from normal gun fire in a military setting, especially set in the future.

2 Likes
12

Personally, I do like new tracers and it’s great indicator for players to see which type of ammunition you are using. I haven’t noticed much difference between frontline mode and regular but it’s always fun to try something new.
The only thing I do not understand nor like is what you did to rail flashlights. Why does it emit blue light :thinking:

Confused icons for IFF with alternative fire. 10/10 fractures. Would play more.

13

It’s on staff to get the information to the pr author. Would be nice for it to just do it on its own but this way involves maintainers and as is you don’t have full coverage of forum accounts linked to GitHub accounts so it would just be very spotty if it did.

Generally the quality of feedback is a lot better since they’re pushed to get all their thoughts written up into a single post describing what’s wrong and how it could be better.

2 Likes
14

Tried SG last night for the PR, one I myself dislike the different colour tracer for when its off and on. I say keep it the same. Second while I feel the damage might be a bit weaker then I thought when its on. But that could just be me, I didnt get much time to play as SG as I joined late round.

1 Like
15

Hmmm, generally speaking frontline mode’s main strength is less the pure damage buff, and more from the elimination of on-screen falloff.
You get +4 damage and +3 damage respectively for precision and AP across the board, currently.

When frontlining, effective range is huge (as many xenos don’t actually run within 5 tiles of you, they stick back e.g. warrior lunge, or they try to retreat). Without it enabled, you would deal 20 damage precision and 14 damage AP at screen-range. With frontline mode enabled, it’s 34 damage precision and 23 damage AP at screen range.

M56B SG DPS [no frontline mode]
150 (@<=5m) 125 (@6m) 100 (@7m) (Precision)
100 (@<=5m) 80 (@6m) 60 (@7m) (AP)

M56B SG DPS [frontline mode]
170 (Precision)
115 (AP)

MK2 DPS
176 (Normal)
132 (AP)

Dealing full damage at the outer edges of your screen is pretty strong, especially since you have NVGs- It’s where most xenos tend to paincrit, so you’ll be the one finishing them off.

So yeah, you won’t actually feel THAT much stronger when shooting within 5 tiles- But you’ll absolutely feel it when the xenos start running, and you start chasing. SG works best when played somewhat aggressively (but not suicidally so).

As you can see from the figure, buffing precision damage is out of the question- It’s already basically as strong as a MK2 there (but has no armour-penetration, whereas MK2 has 5 AP- Thus making precision mode a very niche thing you use solely on drones, carriers, trappers, hiveys & runners, none of whom are specialised combat castes.)

Buffing AP is similarly probably not gonna happen. AP is the ammo mode you use 80% of the time, hence the AP damage value is the most impactful.
SG must be weaker than a MK2 damage-wise because SGs have better situational awareness (NVGs), so I think the current AP damage is ideal.

3 Likes
16

Yeah most of the combat I has as SG as last night was withing 5 tiles of me, it was not feeling that much better. Looking at the PR now i think the numbers are largely fine as is. Its just its been a way for so long it not easy to feel the change is big or impactful for some folks. It will take some more time to get used to the change but over all thus far I think its good.

2 Likes
17

Don’t worry, this has been fixed! Blue rail lights were a bug xd

The rail light is no longer powered by Smurf slave labour. It’s now back to white!

Regarding confusion about IFF and frontline mode- Yeah, that’s probably my fault for swapping the icons around (was hoping to get away with using placeholders, but then I got aseprite so I didn’t have an excuse anymore).

There are now unique sprites for the frontline toggle, and the IFF toggle is now back to what it’s meant to be.
This should get rid of any confusion!

3 Likes
18

Can just do blue tip with yellow/orange gradient tail

Is the color change for both modes, or just frontline mode? Because I think it’d be a very important distinction to make it frontline-mode only. That gives players on both sides, as well as the user, better visual feedback and worthwhile information.

Quick photoshop to show what I mean:
asgdags asgdags3 asgdags2

Also fwiw, green is the normal tracer color used by Soviets (and Chinese), and Red by NATO, so for HvH it might be worth adjusting tracer fires as well.

2 Likes
19

No frontline mode = Blue IFF tracers
Frontline mode = normal bullets
IFF off = normal bullets regardless of frontline toggle

TL;DR if an SG has blue tracers, they’re firing weak bullets with conventional IFF.
If the SG isn’t firing tracers, they’re using the stronger frontline ammunition with alternative IFF.

I did try red initially, but it turned out to be rather hard to tell apart because the OG bullets already have a orange-red sprite, hence using red tracers was too similar.

It was ultimately a toss up between green or blue, and blue won simply because Blundir liked it more :flushed:

The photoshop images look quite good! I did try that concept when I was spriting- It ended up making the AP and precision tracers too similar to actually tell them apart, hence why AP almost glows white, whereas precision has a dark-blue tint.
Probably just my poor spriting skills though, I might try another crack at it later- Though if you’re able to make a visually distinct precision ammo sprite too, I’ll just use that lmao

2 Likes