Solidfury7 - Staff Report: Enforcement Action Taken - Westrover

Solidfury7 - Staff Report: Enforcement Action Taken - Westrover

What’s your BYOND key:

Solidfury7

Round ID:

29752

Your character name:

William ‘Jester’ Crimson

Their BYOND key:

Westrover

What are you reporting?:

Enforcement Action Taken

Description of the incident:

After testing a tactic over several days, I was further experimenting with using the GAUs on the Alamo. With double coolant, the Alamo can do extremely quick flybys, firing on a designated flare before landing and being ready to launch again within 30–50 seconds.

In this particular round, the shared budget was 10,000 at round start.

I used 31.8% of that budget to kit the Alamo for the rest of the operation.

This left just under 70% of the budget for the CAS pilot.

In prior, longer operations where I’ve tested this, I’ve even recycled the Alamo’s full kit back into the Normandy’s CAS budget, working with GPs such as Chad Creatone to do so.

Regardless, I did not expect to run out of points, and the option to recycle was always available.


The note in question "“Warning - Rule 4, Rule 8 - Griefing & Role Expectations. As a Dropship Pilot outfitted the transport dropship with 4 GAUs, spending all the CAS budget on equipping the Alamo to do CAS duties while in transport. Essentially what this player has done is intentionally put the GP in a worse position, putting a player out of the round.”

Why This Note Is Incorrect

Rule 4 – Griefing
CM defines griefing as:

“The intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or the server without a valid roleplay reason.”

I coordinated with the GP throughout the round and did not act with intent to annoy or disrupt.

I did not even fire a GAU that round – I only engage on 10/10 flares to preserve budget.

I performed transport nearly every 1–2 minutes without fail. This would be visible in the logs had the moderator checked.

A comparable setup, such as using multiple sentry launchers for flare strikes, would not be punished. The mechanical function is the same.

Rule 8 – Use Your Slot

I fulfilled all my duties as a Dropship Pilot, including regular transport, unloading and onloading supplies and intelligence organisation.

The Alamo’s GAUs do not prevent it from fulfilling its transport role. I can fire directly, if I so wish, and even if I chose to “flyby” with duo-coolant, doing a flyby and recharging, takes less than a minute and does not interrupt transport duty.

The GP continued CAS uninterrupted for TWO HOURS before he went to cryogenics, with plenty of points and ammunition remaining, and I mean, a fuckton. None of my equipment was recycled against him, even though I explicitly offered that option when I went cryo. I’ll include images from points in the round showing how much he actually had.

Ultimately my concerns about the moderators conduct are:

The rules they claimed I broke don’t remotely match the behaviour ingame, nor mechanical intent. I was punished for, in practice, using 15% of the budget. as everything could be refunded. Thats 1,500 points. Thats 300 points more than the usual boring standard “5 turrets”

The moderator didn’t do a proper investigation before applying the note.

When shown clear evidence that the note was wrong, instead of correcting it they doubled down and refused to look in to it further.

Leaving a note in place thats factually incorrect or at best, misleading is a serious problem. If you cannot trust a staff member to make a won’t fix mistakes when they’re pointed out, it damages trust in the system.

Ultimately, this is an extremely concerning take from the moderator, it is in essence setting precident that if you spend anything over 1200 points, which is 12% of the points as the dropship pilot, you run the risk of being punished. Would this occur if I did this with a sentry launcher, despite being extremely poor economically to purchase? What about if I take fulton/med-evac myself on Alamo to help with both during trying times? Yes, its ridiculous having to make these comparisons, but clearly it is a possibility with absolutely bizzare and baseless rulings like this one.

Evidence:

Honestly, just look at the photos. If you are telling me that having 1000’s of points and this amount of ammo is not enough 2 hours in to the round.

Do these photos look like someone locked out of a round? This is a moderator who didn’t like someones playstyle or didn’t do the one thing they’re supposed to do in these situations, investigate. I’d honestly just give him the benefit of the doubt, but the fact they doubled down when I asked them if they wanted to look in to it more because I have more information they’d need, shows a really poor judgement of the staff member here. We’ll see if anything gets done about it beyond the usual “talked-to”.)



(image showing nothing was cannibilsied from Alamo, so he’d have 1500 point for ammo at least if he really needed it)

11 Likes

current round…

3 Likes

The report system does not allow you to save drafts, nor schedule posts, and unfortunately my work leaves me time poor at times, if the round is still going (3 hour plus, if so), then the thread can simply be hidden from visibility. Although it does not contain any actionable information for either side and is pertaining to a staff member.

3 Likes

The rules they claimed I broke don’t remotely match the behaviour ingame, nor mechanical intent. I was punished for, in practice, using 15% of the budget. as everything could be refunded. Thats 1,500 points. Thats 300 points more than the usual boring standard “5 turrets”

Your pictures don’t include the 2 extra ammo crates that were to the right of the Alamo at some point.

6 GAU ammo crates: 275 x 6 = 1650

4 GAUs: 400 x 4 = 1600

Engines are required for both ships so out of your 10,000 also comes another -1600, although that’s the norm and to be expected. So we’re down ~4800 points (that’s not 30%) and the GP, which is a far more contested roll than DP, also gets to run the CHORE that is Medevac, Fulton, and Paradrop.

Recycling the GAUs would net 1280 points (multiply by 0.8) and that’s reasonable, re: recycling used ammo, that’s a pittance:

	if(sold_eqipment.ammo_count != sold_eqipment.max_ammo_count)
		recycle_points = (sold_eqipment.point_cost * (sold_eqipment.ammo_count / sold_eqipment.max_ammo_count))
		to_chat(user, SPAN_WARNING("\The [sold_eqipment] is not fully loaded, and less points will be able to be refunded."))

even if I chose to “flyby” with duo-coolant, doing a flyby and recharging, takes less than a minute and does not interrupt transport duty.

this is false for a dozen reasons that i won’t clutter this post with

That’s my explanation re: why someone might be annoyed w/ this without their express approval. The reason i ahelped is because the GP was pretty vocal in command freq about not being OK with this and as a GP main myself i’d be livid dude, if I didn’t agree to this. I run extremely high volume FMs myself and this would make that unviable. BUT:

I don’t want you to be shit on for this tactic, I ahelped because the GP didn’t agree to it. As a GP I regularly give both the free engines + 1600 points to DP, I even encourage mini-CAS with laser and I’d probably even be down for this dual-CAS setup. But the GP didn’t want it and you did it anyway and that feels unfair; it’s not like you took on some of his responsibilities to compensate for what felt like stealing his job – you could’ve at least run Fulton.

That said I WAS incredibly dickish/rude to you in IC chat and for that I apologize genuinely and sincerely, I went a little too far w/ empathy for the GP

tl;dr i wanted to give context as i’m the one that ahelped (snitched). i genuinely think the only problem here is that the GP didn’t agree to it, and that’s why i ahelped.

there is an argument to be made that it’s an IC issue and i personally am fine with that, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the GP should agree before someone takes half the fun part of his job with none of the other responsibilities

8 Likes

Thank you for your apology. It started off cordial, but the interaction quickly degraded, I myself wasn’t as polite as I could have been, you were more agitated than the actual GP , especially over all comms and command comms, leading to some misinformation, which was frustrating because the interactions did make it harder to work alongside him and co-ordinate with him, who wasn’t quite as miffed as you from our interactions on radio initially.

As for recycling the ammo, that round, I would have got an 81-82% return on my ammo. That’s 1353 points back on a total 1650 purchase. I would not call that a pittance.

As for the double cooling estimate, if you’re including launch and landing time, that adds 20 seconds, but 20 seconds is still an extremely short amount of time. Add another 20 if you’re taking your time with the firing mission, and that’s still a very short turnaround.

As for Fultons, Medevacs, and similar tasks being a “chore”? I actually disagree. That may be your personal take, but I enjoy them and think they’re extremely valuable interactions for multiple roles. They may feel like a “chore” if your only goal is to fire guns, but for me they’re engaging. I would have been ecstatic to take med-evac, Fultons, and help with them. However, as I said to Arnie Perkins two rounds prior in LOOC, I believe that the “supporting” attachments should be much cheaper (or even free) for both dropships, since they provide “passive” gameplay interactions that keep people busy outside the flashier parts of their loop. It is also less efficient to the point of danger (eg, med-evac while you’re landing on colony, vs Normandy which always lands shipside, with infestations, thats dangerous)

Regardless, much of what you’ve raised here are hypotheticals. If you were GP, if X was an issue, if Y was an issue. The screenshots show plainly that the PO had plenty of budget and ammo for the whole round. The note states that I was “putting a player out the round,” “spending all of the CAS budget,” and “griefing” or “failing to do one’s role.” These claims are inaccurate.

  1. The dropship fabricator is for both dropships.

  2. Mechanics and implementation do not give either PO priority. If that were the case, the devs could make gameplay changes, such as separate dropship fabricators (which I’ve already suggested in Discord and in-game before) or even give the GP a higher rank than the DP.

  3. Griefing. This doesn’t even fit the staff’s own definition of griefing, which I’ll include in a screenshot. Not to mention, why would I scrap the sentry launcher and sentry for the GP and not take a targeting computer (cost: 800) so he could have more budget?

  4. Use your slot. I did my duty without missing a beat. Near-constant transport duties when I wasn’t moving intel, bodies, and SSD players on or off the ship.

The GP, as shown, had plenty at his disposal.

But there’s an even bigger issue here.

With this ruling, it opens a whole can of worms:

  • If an RPG spec is denied as much ammo as they want by Req, is that “locking them out of their core gameplay” because they fire them at every T1 and run out?

  • What about an OT who doesn’t get as much metal as they want from the QM?

  • Does mortar crew have a right to as many shells as they want from Cargo?

  • What about an XO or CO refusing to spend points on the dropship fabricator points??

All ridiculous, of course, but that’s the point. This ruling creates inconsistency.

Right now, we’re dealing with an unwritten rule, with an unwritten threshold, that goes against the implemented mechanics of the game. If this were truly a problem, it could be changed mechanically quite easily, or it could be written into the rules clearly. Instead, this was handled with “vibe moderating” and without any meaningful investigation or follow-up.

As for the “snitching” as you put it, that’s totally fine, I encouraged you to ahelp, it’s good to get an impartial third party involved sometimes. That being said, this situation was not up to the standard you’d expect of an investigation nor followup.

The image attached at the bottom is showing the remaining points (in addition to all the ammo he already had an hour in)

Napkin maths time

GAUs + Ammo recycled, + 894 (Screenshot below) + 1800 (1 hour of points) = 5327….+ 3800(ALL the ammo he has one hour in) = 9127.

Are we saying that 9127 points at hand is not enough for CAS? Really? This is without any INTEL BUDGET either which is an option!

At the time of note, it would have been 7327 points at hand….and if he really needed it, he could also cannibalise the two lazes, so he could have even more points if things got that dire!

5 Likes

with all of this in consideration and it’s not even that I read your whole argument (respectfully I didn’t) - this definitely isn’t griefing and if I could take back my ahelp, I would

the GP in particular was new as fuck and i guess maybe that’s why I crashed out on his behalf – but as you pointed out, I was more annoyed than even he was. The ONLY reason I was mad was because I knew the GP didn’t agree to it — But then, I’ve also had rounds where GP refuses to give me 1000-1400 points for sentries/door guns and I do it anyway. I don’t think I should be noted for that. There’s too much needed context for this to be an OOC issue, maybe

however and IK staff reports aren’t the place for my commentary:

“This is a moderator who didn’t like someones playstyle or didn’t do the one thing they’re supposed to do in these situations, investigate. I’d honestly just give him the benefit of the doubt, but the fact they doubled down when I asked them if they wanted to look in to it more because I have more information they’d need, shows a really poor judgement of the staff member here. We’ll see if anything gets done about it beyond the usual “talked-to”.)”

a lot of people were bitching about it, largely from lack of understanding. I’m probably the only ahelp but I do think Westrover was trying to act in good faith re: something he maybe didn’t understand, but I’m 100% sure he DM’d the GP and GP replied “yeah I didn’t agree to this”. With the (arguably false) understanding that this fucked over the GP (even if it didn’t), and the GP saying he didn’t agree to it, I understand why Westrover placed a griefing label on it

Apologies for pushing this to OOC when it could’ve just been dealt with IC. Thank you for your time

TL;Dr I think it should’ve remained IC, he wasn’t griefing, yes I still think it’s fucking rude for GP to say “no” and him to do it anyway but shit like that happens 10,00000 times a round and is part of the game, we can’t always be friendly to one another. I definitely take back my ahelp

4 Likes

Hey there!

Although loading the Alamo with so many weapons is rather unusual IC-wise, we don’t believe it was against our rules. Deliberately wasting the budget purely to grief the Gunship Pilot would indeed be griefing and against our rules; however, in this case we found no evidence that William Crimson intentionally griefed the Gunship Pilot.

Therefore, I will remove the warning and inform Westrover about the situation, but we won’t be taking any action against them.