The Provost and Marine Law, clarity and a request.

Hello all, today I’d like to question and discuss the role and responsibilities of what seems to be a not well understood group, the USCMC Provosts.

I can find nothing more on then, no SOP, no special exemptions or privileges, nothing except rank tables on the wiki. Is this lack of information meant to be intentional? I understand this is a game and that by not having a procedure to break could free them up to act according to the needs of the circumstance, but the lack of a stated SOP leaves them in kind of a nebulous situation to me. I can get if it’s done that way so people can’t rules lawyer them, but that leads to another problem: their immunity to Marine Law.

This immunity tends to lead to unreasonable and illegal actions by them, or at least seems to. Again without prior knowledge I can’t tell if the Marshal waterboarding the CL is him being part of an ongoing Event or just abuse of authority. This leads to my request, remove their immunity to Marine Law, or clarify what actions can be taken against them without violating server rules, same as the section detailing what MP’s and Marines can do in the course of their own Tom and Jerry type shit.

If that suggestion is not desirable, due to the Provost symbolizing direct Staff Involvement, then I would request that they stop being used in this sort of Unofficial Capacity OR that a clear line be drawn between them operating in a Staff capacity and somebody hopping on to have fun. Seeing the people tasked with upholding the law break it consistently does nothing but undermine faith in them to carry it out fairly. If somebody wants to get up to shit then give the Provost a Section 31 or ONI Section Zero type entity distinct from their “Investigator” type duties, or bring out the TIS or DCI or if people want to break the law. As it stands with the Provost being used for both Staff Duties and when somebody just wants in on the fun it makes it hard to tell where they stand in rule terms, and impossible to tell if ignoring or refuting them will result in just In Character consequences or eating a ban.

Thanks for reading, any information or context is appreciated.

4 Likes

I’ve seen people get BEd by Provost after engaging with them when they assume it’s for a roleplay event, but it was actually a staff related matter. It would be nice to know so we don’t get round ended for trying to engage with people. Why does staff need an IC role to punish people for rule breaks, just note/ban them, and use Provost for Roleplay events or something.

4 Likes

My words are not that of management.

Firstly, you will never be banned for disagreeing or otherwise reporting any purported “bad faith” actions of a Provost Official in-game. If you see a Provost Officer waterboarding someone, do not fear that reporting this to the Provost Office will see you eating some kind of admin warning. Any kind of event character, a Provost Officer or otherwise, is a in-game character and is thus a ingame attempt at resolving or doing something.

Secondly, as you noted, Provost Officials don’t have well defined procedures because they are closer to event characters meant to drive an event or resolve a in-character dispute.

The requirement of Provost Officials having immunity to marine law, and absolute authority to alter it, is such to allow the individual controlling them to complete their desired goals without having to argue with shipside personnel regarding procedures or the letter of the law. Without access to this, the usage of Provost Officials to resolve a OOC issue via IC means becomes impractical.

I can not speak to incidents of Provost Officials wantonly executing shipside personnel for little justification, and I’d argue these accusations would be better left as a staff report.

4 Likes

Provost marshal’s are a real thing in the military, just wanted to say this because a lot of people seem to think they were made up for CM.

https://www.lejeune.marines.mil/Offices-Staff/Provost-Marshals-Office/#:~:text=The%20Provost%20Marshal’s%20Office%20is,intelligence%20led%20and%20community%20policing

2 Likes

My concern regarding their in-game actions is less me being concerned about getting in trouble for reporting them, but rather stems from the idea of me actively going against them in game. Considering they have been and are being used for both Official and Unofficial ends it makes it hard to know how to react to them, things like lethal force or arrests for example.

Typically in Events, Marine Law is thrown out the window in certain regards, the CE has activated the Joe Tide, CL is kill on sight, ect. So when the Provost shows up Mateba in hand and fully armed Enforcers in tow, I want to know where he stands in regards to the Rules. As is, he has the same immunity as when on Admin Business as he does when he shows up to beat the MT for sending dickbutt faxes to HighCom. When the Provost is not just breaking the law but acting immorally or they are simply in opposition to my own goals I would like to know whether physically acting against them would be in violation of not just Marine Law, but server rules as well. This physical action ranging from shoving the Marshal as he goes to dome my buddy, to shooting at the Enforcers in response to their stated intent to send me to space GITMO. When they’re used for both it muddies the waters and leads to confusion regarding their role.

This is the reason for my suggestion of a stated SOP. If they are going to be used in this manner, then there should be actual procedures in place that they should abide by, and perhaps while being the final say on Marine Law they should not be able to break it. If the Immunity were strictly in regards to their Investigations I wouldn’t mind, but when used as part of Events or similar happenings it becomes more of an incentive to break the law, rather than a convenient way to avoid rules lawyering. What this creates is a situation where the only option in regards to an in-game occurrence is to hop on the Forums and file a Staff Report, rather than hashing it out in IC using the already existing systems.

This leads to my and others possible solutions, either by clearly defined SOP, having rule breaks handled OOC, or by having Investigation and Event Style Provost visits handled by groups specifically made for each, letting you know just what sort of situation your dealing with.

Thanks for listening (Again)

3 Likes

@Ysmir good discussion. It is great thing to discuss issues such as this openly and tactfully.

2 Likes

Marine law kinda works. Mp players are kinda there to help things keep moving. Marines are kinda reasonable

You need the provost for when those kindas… arent

3 Likes

When I have the time to do so I intend to address the concerns regarding no guidelines or expectations for Provost roles. As has been highlighted they’re frequently used for event purposes, but I intend to make clear the appropriate use. Particularly in regards to how and when higher ranking officers should be utilised.

I do not believe it necessary for example for the Sector Marshal to be turning up for a routine appeal issue, generally speaking the vast majority of Provost related issues should be left to Inspectors.

3 Likes