As of a couple of months for now, the Warrior has been unchanged for the most part regarding their ability. It’s been known that the Warrior’s lunge is the most rewarding tool to use by most players as it used for capping marines in frontlines and taking down marines easily with little to no risk. Personally, I’m okay with how the ability is played and how it’s used as it makes the Warrior one of the classes that you need to watch out if you’re alone and keeps lone marines to push a frontline without support.
However, I do believe that it’s ability to lunge at player characters from a 7 tile radius with instant teleportation from using the ability is rather too strong to not have some sort of wind up, especially when animals like a tiger don’t lunge out at you without reading themselves and then lunging. Not that I’m trying to compare an earth animal to a xenomorph from a game but the ability to simply lunge at someone near instant speed and taking them down and flinging them back to the xeno side is not a very fun experience to play against, especially when they can turn the corner and lunge at you, instantly.
This is why I’m suggesting a wind up to lunge, maybe a 1 second wind up or 2 seconds. This would help the state of warrior as it would require some sort of skill level instead of a one click win all ability. It would amplify the level of skill the ability would ensue and give the Marines a chance to react to the threat instead if hoping that the grab isn’t long enough.
The reason why the same can’t be applied to Lurkers or Runners is because their frame is a lot lighter from one of a more muscular and slower xeno, like the warrior. Also because thats the only move they have that makes them somewhat reliable, since their health pool is a lot smaller and receive almost to zero armor from their attacks, unlike the warrior.
Hopefully this opens up the possibility of players to voice their opinion on the idea of changing the warrior class a bit and instill some change of sorts. Thank you for reading.
This mans account was made a little over an hour ago, this is their first post. As we can see, the exasperation of some users with regards to the overpowered ability of of Warriors to instant lunge and then throw you back out of reach of marines is no small matter.
I for one support this suggestion, as I and many others have spoken about this issue before. I suggest others do as well.
Warriors as they stand are already exceptionally versatile capture and fragging machines- while they’re very squishy and can be memed by a robust marine with a MOU53 or M37- this all depends on where they are when they stun them and the vast majority of marines aren’t running around in a black hazard vest like a crackhead with a MOU53 and roller bed like I am specifically looking to counter lunging warriors. It really should not be intentional that the lunge grab (with a massive stun) and then fling is able to be juggled between like 2 to 4 moderately competent warriors that leads to an instant cap. Either add a delay for the lunge, or lower the stun time fairly significantly.
Might just be schizoposting at this point, but what do I even know about anything in this archaic ass 2D spaceman game.
i think a lot of what makes me hate the warrior is that it kinda cheeses the rest of combat by design
as in: as a xeno, you’re not supposed to be able to drag dead bodies into your lines to make sure they perma, because that’s kinda metagaming as well as a dick move
but as a warrior, you can yeet a marine way back into xeno lines before they die, and by the time they do, there’s zero chance a medic can drag them back before they perma, or they straight up don’t die and get capped with little to no escape route
the top thing i would compare it to is the prae with the tail yoink ability where it:
has a wind up as well as an obvious telegraph
usually ends up slamming the target against a wall, making it not drag them all the way into xeno lines
to me, the tail yoink is pretty well balanced in that it can be avoided, but is still pretty scary, especially in chokes where marines block each other,
whereas the woyer lunge-grab-fling combo is all those things but better except in terms of range, which just means woyers will wait behind a wall thanks to the lack of windup
tldr, it’s not that woyers kill super easily, it’s that woyers move marines super easily
edit: i think the biggest example of warriors “cheesing combat” is that the best counterplay to a warrior dragging someone is quite literally to kill your fellow marine to break the warrior’s grab and make them unflingable
“Lurkers and Warriors are the last bastion of roleplay, they are quite clearly the two remaining pillars holding up the MRP expectation of the server, and anybody who suggests that either should be nerfed are just LRP TDMers who need to find a different game. The threat of being pounced or lunged makes you stick with your teammates and co-operate with them in order to stave off surprise attacks and dangerous enemies. It is the pinnacle of the teamplay experience to help your teammates out of raw, overwhelming fear that you will be pounced or lunged and then dragged into the darkness never to be seen again.”
You may think that this copypasta is a meme, but it’s not. Warriors are easily countered, marines are just not using their braincells to do anything against(both for the lurkers and runners)
All you have to do to counter the warriors - is use slugs and destroy the walls(because the tight area is a warriors’ paradise), that’s it. If you can’t do these 2 simple things can’t really recommend anything.
In case if you can’t destroy the walls(and no one has slugs) and warrior lunges someone, you’ve gotta actually push and not fear RP(tho I support the fear RP)
In my honest opinion, talking that warrior’s lunge is OP is the same as xenos says that shotguns(or juggling) are OP.
shotgun juggling hasn’t been relevant in a long time
‘just counter the warriors dude’ is literally not a good argument in this context because of all the people who’ve contributed above. time, and time, and time again, i have seen people get lunged in front of a group of marines, dragged behind them, and then flung straight into hive where they’re either capped or killed. ‘countering them’ is not easy. half the time i don’t even succeed even with a crackhead loadout and movement
honestly, it’s starting to amaze me at this point how rabid people in this community are about anything xeno related getting changed or removed- but the amount of marine changes (and even predator changes) i’ve witnessed over the last few months have been substantial. we’re literally talking about a 1 to 2 second windup for warriors. that’s… about it.
too tired from pulling an all nighter to properly punctuate. my observations may not even be correct, i lurk a lot but don’t pay attention massively to the discussions until this came up. take it with a grain of salt with you want, i’m literally a schizo, but it seems like anything that majorly needs to be changed takes an ass-grinding (even the APC, which was a slow, painful, agonizing death) amount of time to even be seriously talked about over the same three empty arguments being rehashed, really crazy that the exact same thing keeps happening, over and over again. someone complains about something, raises some pretty decent points, and it devolves into “you just don’t play the game well enough” or “just counter it” or other ad nauseum outright toxicity or disrespect over an opinion someone has.
not saying you were being that way, but watching CM-Discussion and ideasguys threads go on for days to weeks and devolving into a toxic slugfest where someone got their feelings hurt, or was just in general being an asshole, or really just condescending- which seems like an issue a massive amount of players have in this community today because “i have x amount of hours” or “i’m literally a marine main so this makes my opinion relating to xenos more relevant” has disillusioned me to any real constructive conversation anymore. it’s kind of exhausting.
this is pmuch why i don’t contribute to any conversations, but this warrior rework/nerf is a hill i can, and will die on. and for anyone even wondering who i am and why i’m not a vocal or a well recognized person in the community, i’ve been here for 8 years- since november 2015, i play 12 different characters that i frequently cycle between. i like it this way. the only lack of anonymity you’ll ever get from me is when i answer your mhelp at 2 in the morning while intoxicated
Perhaps you should re-read my post. I agree that lounge is a great ability on the Warrior’s arsenal, however being able to instantly lounge at an enemy and throw them back into xeno lines without at least some sort of warning or a second to react seems unfair and unbalanced.
And giving the argument to just ‘counter’ them is simply a statement as old as time in the CM community, anything can be countered if prepared enough, but you simply cannot be prepared to act on a surprise woyer around the corner already clicking on your sprite and lounging at you. That’s why I recommend at least some sort of wind up, personally I would suggest 1 to 2 seconds wind up as that would give time for the marine to even process what’s happening.
I am not a Captain of Balance, and I do play Marine more than Xeno.
But, in my opinion, I find that the Warrior’s Lunge is the only alien ability I find to be truly unfair to play against as a Marine.
Queen’s screech? Balanced by the fact there is only one Queen, the Queen has to expose herself to use it (thus stopping xeno evo and other abilities) and that she makes an incredibly loud sound on moving so you have advance warning she is coming.
Runner Acid Explosion? Runner turns bright green, makes a very loud noise on activation, is functionally a suicide ability that kills the xeno on use.
Preatorian Abduct? Require a unique strain which locks you out of other strong abilities, has a long and obvious windup.
A Warrior can just yoink you after it instantly turns a corner and fling you beyond the reach of any Marine. No windup, no obvious advance warning, no real counter play. Saying “just counter them” is insufficent as a smart Warrior has no major counter, slugs can’t stun something that is already behind a cade line of resin, and destroying walls requires a massive expenditure of ammunition and does nothing if there is another massive line of resin walls right behind the warrior. There is a reason Marines often call in CAS or OB’s to clear Resin mazes.
I don’t know what the true answer is, or if there even needs to be one, but I do think the Warriors Lunge is too strong an ability for such a non-Queen xenomorph. A windup would be a fair change.
Having played CM for numerous years I have found there is no caste as oppressive as warrior, you have to build your loadout around them if you intend to do anything other then sit behind other marines when you approach corners or doors. Not even T3s who are all countered by their own methods usually AP don’t require much more than that. But for a T2 warrior is balance defining, you have to play around them as a marine no T3 is like this. Hell Oppressor(based around warrior) which is the evolved form taking up a precious t3 slot is just worse in most regards compared to warrior for the price of a T3 slot. I’m not sure the lunge is the main issue of warrior either, it’s merely the enabler of the bullshit that is fling and punch into backlines. Even if you slug a warrior there is a good chance it runs away and you limp away with a broken bone or other form of damage. At worse you just get murdered again later. I wrote this while half awake so apologies if this is word vomit.
Honestly, yeah, Warrior is terrible to fight against, even with a good marine team: there’s a reason sometimes you can see seven (SEVEN) warriors, and 0 T3s.
All other xenos seem to be balanced, or close to it, as they can be fought against and countered if the marines use their brains, or even half of it: Lurkers are made of wet paper and a competent SG can make quick work of them, boilers can be countered with a sniper, or anyone who gets close to shooting them, Ravagers are imposing but concentrated fire brings them down all the same, and their abilities are balanced: they don’t fling the marines to the ends of the Earth, they dont have an insta “I win” cap button, and they need to be used with understanding of what they do and when NOT to use them.
This is not the case for the Warriors, who can insta lunge, insta grab, and if you don’t have someone watching your ass, you’re dead/capped. Even with someone covering you, you’re still most likely gonna get fucked.
Warrior Balance change for anyone interested by Morrow.
This PR removes cooldown reduction on slash, slightly lowers fling and punch cooldowns, removes fling stun and replaces it with a slow and decreases lunge range to 4 tiles.
So no one plays warrior anymore because of the nerfs. Marines get owned anyway because all good warrior players go lurker. Obviously morrow has gone too far with these nerfs, some of the changes should be reverted so warrior is not as useless as during TM.
With the current warrior nerf I don’t think the lunge needs a windup. 4-tile range so far feels far far more fair and balanced when it comes to fighting warriors; if you stay outside that range you’re ok and your risk is mitigated, but if the warrior can get close, like in an ambush, you’re still fucked.
I think this works out far more like the way this caste is supposed to play as rather than what warrior has been like for ages now, where the merest hint of its existence at the edge of your screen for a split second meant you’ll be going to brazil.
This was overdue to be honest. Even the prae strain fling doesnt stun you. It just gives you megaslow.
IMO put the stun in the prae caste instead of warrior.
A interesting idea for warriors is that their lunge doesn’t ‘fizzle out’ if they fail to get it, it launch’s them to the spot where they missed. Making it so you have to be damn sure you can sprite click, and it would even catch out vet warrior players SOMETIMES. No other xenos abilities don’t move you if you miss.
I don’t understand why everyone is calling for a nerf to the warrior. This change - particularly the lunge change from full screen to four tiles - is going to simply encourage the playstyle people hate the most (door/corner camping) while nerfing mobile and risky playstyles that are less frustrating to fight.
It straight up just removes CHOICES from a warrior. Before - they were given a choice of doing a RISKY play of lunging full screen and grabbing a marine and flinging them back. Sometimes they were punished for it as good marines would quickly capitalize on the bad positioning but, other times, the warrior was rewarded and they used this tactic to take out key marines like SADAR, pyro, etc.
And this is all coming from a heavy marine main who’s played against absolutely SATANIC warriors like DOR, DOM and SHP. They played warrior and made it look like a work of art and this is only going to make it more and more unlikely that warriors can make amazing plays.
