So, in trying to figure out how to FIX research, we gotta figure out whats wrong with it.
The bits ive seen: Xenos hate it because they have very little to no counterplay and it tends to be poorly balanced
Marines hate it because GAMBLING.
Is there anything in more detail?
I wouldn’t say the gambling bit is too much of an issue for Marines. Since it keeps Research for the most part “fresh” instead of rushing the meta combo of stims. The despoiler is also currently a good way to counterplay against stims. If something could be changed, honestly OT could be merged with Research and give Research one or two more researchers along with expanding Research to add an OT area. Since OT at the end of the day is just chemistry.
I have nearly zero hours logged in research, and I don’t hate the department or the people, but I do hate the lack of documentation of outcomes. The ambiguity invites misunderstanding and hinders clear understanding or effective oversight. I think that’s the only thing I’m critical of the department for. If the community only knows the department for making stims, and now white flame, of course, they’re going to either push for or against those two things (obligatory greeno mention). They’re the most observable and easily understood products (so far as most people can tell) that come from the department. I do personally believe that the RNG aspects of the research department are unhealthy, or at least much harder to control for than a system with multiple deterministic outcomes, but I say that as an OT player, and while in a vacuum, I believe that the OT system is able to be salvaged, (ignoring the unlimited ethonal booze machine, or other chems if they are adequately supplied from other departments, because you have a limited amount within the workshop and no chemical despensor) a good chunk of people seem to really dislike the OT department in a similar manner. OT is like the dumber cousin of research. Every device has listed limitations available to be viewed on the wiki, and you don’t have custom fuels, as much as people (understandably) seem to get confused about. You can make Sticky-Napalm, Napalm, High-combustion (if you are gifted the required CLF3 from a different department’s chem dispenser), but what I’m trying to say is that this crap has fixed, observable values. I’ve asked for the research on explosive chemicals to be added to the list on the wiki (and they were, and I thank the wiki heroes) because, for the longest time, they were not, and I’ll be honest, they’re just an entirely better version of OT in every way short of being able to print from the device lathe themselves (they can make better fuel canisters with biomatter though.) Just like Ponds, I’ve said that you could just merge the two departments, you’d likely see a single department forced to split its attention and resources rather than having both Spec steroids, stims/medical gear, greenos, and so on. I like building whatever the hell I feel like as the current OT, so I’d likely never play something that had me roll contracts (or do botony, unless it was to feed bombs, cause thats what I used to think it was good for lmao)
I’m drifting, but stop making things because it’s demanded from a random marine, and do whatever you want in your lab because you’re 100% feeding the memes.
and fuckin uuuh
As a rifleman I hate research because they insist on being xenoagents through their shitty revival stims to buff cap numbers on the xeno side.
As a medic I hate them because they almost never use the networking function on the smartfridge.
As an IO I hate then because my entire fucking team died to put vials on their table just so some dipshit can blow up the smartfridge trying to automate an EXP4 chem on the turing machine
As a doctor I hate them because stims make me obsolete
As a CMO I hate them because wrangling them is as hard as wrangling cats with ADHD.
As a QM I hate them because they get mad at me when I’m waiting for CIC to be done huffing paint thinner so they can send the squad pads I got full of stims OR I hate them because they committed to making flamer fuel without thinking if I’d even be able to afford it. Actually as QM I just hate everyone, period.
As a CIC officer I hate them because when they do something only 10% of the time it saves the round. Most of the other times it involves the need for a police raid on research because they made greenos without authorization for the morbillionth time.
And as a researcher I fucking hate research because how fucking nerfed, unsatisfying and hard it is now.
You need at least 2 modern day equivalents of Tyrone to reliably get something passable done.
wdym gambling
there is literally no difference for marines if theres no research or has research every round. Its just a bonus if they make stims, corrupted, white flame, ceramics.
even the most fuckup research is a “bonus” since they drag xeno bodies to research for points
I love research as a marine and researcher. Idk where this hate comes from on marines side lol.
The only thing I hate is how short the rounds are, and how even if you pop off and make something good marines can just fold and it doesn’t matter.
Last time I dealt with research as QM they sent like, and I shit you not, 40 backpacks worth of stims. I ran out of backpacks in one vendor, clogged the chute so I couldn’t get OT grenades, then were getting pissed at me for not sending them fast enough.
And we still lost the round. Honestly, hating everyone as QM is a valid mood.
Botany is an unfun slog to do as researcher and botany is essential to make anything of worth. You really have to squeeze the fun out of research as with many marine support roles.
I would like to hear @SubjectD9341 opinion on this. Jean is a long time researcher.
Research is inconsistent now which I have a problem with as a marine. It will essentially skew the marine winrate and prevent any meaningful marine buffs. When stims do get pushed out, its nice, however with all the additions such as queen screech neurospit removing multiple units of stims it is super unreliable. You are more likely to overextend and get capped/killed compared to the older days.
Game theory. People love COUNTERPLAY. That’s what makes the game interesting, one side having the ability to do something, and the other side having the ability to FIGHT BACK. Research involves ZERO counterplay. It is a black box that usually does nothing and occasionally makes the round meaningless.
Imagine if, instead of holding comms and slowly working towards a king, xenos had a drone caste that needed to solve a really complicated sudoku puzzle to get a king. Everybody would HATE THAT. It still rewards effort and intelligence, but it invalidates the efforts of the other hundred people who just fought for hours to try and win the game.
People say this, but research is pretty reliant on IOs to do a lot of their strongest strategies. A bigger problem really is that attacking IOs is genuinely unengaging busywork, and that identifying IOs and intel-gathering roles requires inference rather than members of the department being directly communicated- directly contrasted with Pylons being incredibly obvious targets.
There’s no realistic way to prevent research from getting whiteflame. You cannot identify and kill/cap them fast enough, even with very talented backliners. They are not easily distinguishable from regular marines, and roundstart they will be very close to FOB.
I think the only way to counter research is to give xenos a form of research so that marines can see how cancer it is to play against and have them both nuked once and for all
Hating on everyone is the transition period from CT to a proper RO (fuck QM). As normally none remember there’s a working req till they run out of shit, at that time they all think req works based on magic unicorn fart or something “REQ WHERE’S MY STUFF?!!!” (not even a minute passed since they asked for it).
So much talk about hate on this forum. Take a look outside, it’s a beautiful day.
Agreement that counterplay is important and there’s next to none of that against research. Fire immunity boon is both broken atm and whitefire penetrates fire-resistant castes anyways.
For stims, the only “counterplay” with the drains is laughable. If there was a more serious stim-removal technique, that could help. But in general there’s next to nothing to stop it as a xeno, unlike nuke or king with the focus on comm towers.
Despoiler gas and boiler tailstab off the top of my head drain stims, with the former being a legitimately useful way to drain large quantities of stims.
what is my man talking about???
sentinel draining chems with spit would be 100% better than just the slowdown. Hell maybe 2.5u for scatterspit or 5u per spit on all chems? Would be nice if its a toggle too so that if you want to slow down someone only to cap them.
i dont like research when im playing xeno because a good 70% of castes rely on stuns in some regard or just dont have the dps to kill someone with god stims, i dont like research when im playing marine because i shouldnt be allowed to 1v4 and win