I honestly think screech is too iconic to go. It’s also pretty easy to counterplay once you understand how it works.
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It could be better is the main argument, yeah its required but having half of the xenos strength in a single caste is both less fun for the rest of the gang, and makes that single player basically the single player of the xeno side, if they die the xenos loose nearly most of the time and longterm leads to a huge headwind in research.
Xenos should be individually able to deal with a larger amount of marines in a blob as is the current meta without the queens interference, rather then being mostly single target as they are currently overall.
Zerker rav can turn a single marine into crit/death usually per run, sometimes a few slashes more but against a dedicated SG combo, or well placed marines attempting a block, its rare you get much more, evis can get a good few but is usually best when paired with, you guessed it, queen scree.
Oppressor can get some hooks yeah, but again mostly single target and the dudes are still kicking and screaming as you pull them in, if the marines are deathballing they will commit on you and without the fear of a queen screech only a few can get grabbed by woyers etc. so you are good to rush it.
Boiler i agree is one of the few xenos capable of dealing a blow to a rush and giving space, not at the same equality as queen and again its not spread out enough overall to xenos.
There are exceptions to these rules yeah, really skilled players will land get more done then lesser ones, even sometimes finding impact against large marine forces if working together, but 90% of the time when i see this (queen is bald on ovi/dead, IE no scree fear) the marines are not working together correctly and are usually being influenced by an external factor, no medics, bald command etc. etc.
I agree on most of this, queen without scree is a bit weak (thats fine, shes the most important xeno and every t3 should be around her to protect, if not the entire hive), she does however still have neuro spit, but id argue maybe moves a bit slow. If scree was removed id be all for making ovi better/more interactive somehow, and more punishing for being left, my suggestions are above but i certainly welcome if you have any.
But all in all yes, xenos would need basically a full rework, or atleast a difference in how combat works on a bit more of a fundamental level, as scree is such a huge pillar lifting how CM works.
Xenos would need some rework, some new/reworked ones would have to fill more crowd control roles, and marines might need a nerf in damage/be forced to split prios to lessen deathballing tactics.
Id also like to remind this is the IDEAGUYS forum, WYCI is a useless and arguably damaging statement as it will only lessen discussion, we are here to talk about what changes would need to happen, how implementation would need to look, and possibly inspire the ones working on CM, not point the finger at the ones talking about what doesnt work and say they should fix it all themselves.
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I am on your side in all of this. I really am, what is next? Stims? Rng surv item spawn? There is and always be a broken side. If we fixed Queen, then after it’s just going to continue. There will always be a unfair mechanic in cm. I love you GOD. But as long the win ratio is where the devs want it. Why change it into worse? Because you want to?
In low pop this alone would force cm to be high pop alone. Atleast Queen is a spec role aka one. Imagine buffed t3 t2 t1 against low pop?.
Okay, why can sadar now have someone to load their rocket so they can kill faster? Hmm? Why do marines have brute now? Hmm? It’s already happening but now brute is bad Hmm?
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If we cared about lowpop, we wouldn’t try to make every map atleast 2x as big as they are now (multiz). While simultainiously require the marine side to have more and more shipside roles being mandatory (see the REQ rework). Because unless the server goes to hell with another DDoS or similar and gets max 100 guys playing it, 100 or more will be seen as the standard for the game experience (or about 120-140 as a median).
But enough about lowpop. What is wrong with fixing the game? Why care about win/loss rates when the fundamentals are being fixed little by little to make the game better overall. Was the full auto introduction a failure to the game since marine winrates went super low because of a firerate nerf during it? Did survivor become unplayable after the endurance 5 nerf? Why do YOU care about the win/loss rates, when your contribution to it is minimal unless you play the queen? Having a winning or losing round because one person is either competant/incompetant, is inherently bad. So bad not even the marines have a true equal.
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Has anyone tried adding a charge count to Queen’s screech like say 5 or 10 and having it recharge while she’s on ovi?
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that would actually be a fire idea. would heavily benefit us poor t1s who never get evo
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it is kind of what the queen rework does to my limited knowlage of it
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Yeah, easy on the paper. Not ingame. 40 marines at the hive, intense and sisters dying everywhere when she is the most needed “Sorry hive i need to ovi to recharge while I and us die while on OVI” It’s like making every spec a limited addition that in caves they cannot fire sadar because of the caves will collapse to kill every marine inside. That sounds like a broken Queen rework if i have ever seen one.
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So you gotta plan ahead instead of abusing Screech as often and as soon as it is available. If you let that happen, so that 40 marines are at the hive and xenos are dying left and right, you made mistakes prior. It is not like they teleported there. It is not like Screech couldn’t be buffed to balance it becoming a limited resource.
Nope. Not being able to screech doesn’t equal dying if trying. Specs and every single marine have that already. It is called “ammunition” and while SADAR will bankrupt REQ before he runs out of rockets, the rest of marines aren’t so luckey for more exotic weaponry. But still, if SADAR is in caves, those rockets have to be delivered to him by hand, or he runs out of them. Spec’s version of going to ovi to recharge is getting their ammo from somewhere/someone.
I have 2000 hours as xeno. And i do have 600 marines hours as marine. When Queen screech in frontline. What do command say and what do marines automaticly do once she screech? We rush her down. What happend then? We kill the rav that overextended, we kill the defenders, drones, runners, we even kill the rav who desperately trying to drag the critted queen. Now we have killed 7+ xenos because she screeched. There is a combat system against it, and it work. Why do you have to moan so much when it work? Look, i was here since xeno could drag a revivable corpse to the edge of the map. I was here when double PB happend, even TRI PB for the sweats. A time when marines landed and there was no gas, there was huggers everywhere, every closet, under every dead marine. You are moaning about nothing. There is a combat against it. What was broken is gone, now you are just trying to break something that have a counter system to it, and call it unfair. Just like sadar/pyro/scout is. Stims still is in you know. Scout can single handly with ammo switch, solo stun longer than a queen screech is. What i mean in the whole is. You have nothing to moan about anymore. Its not game breaking anymore. It has been fixed, but people keep moaning because they are not happy until its drone vs marine. no medics, no t2. Pure T1 and pfc. Thats the dream you want to have.
There was broken mechanic like dragging reviable marines to a corner of the map that is gone. You have unfair mechanic of huggers in closet that is deleted due to landing gas. Every broken mechanic that is UNFAIR is gone. What this topic moans about there is already a weakness to it. I wish i could close this topic, its that stupid.
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To be fair to the original topic, is that its less “Queen screech bad! Remove!!”, and more “Queen is too impactfull. Decentralize it across the hive”. People comming out of the woodworks all saying screech bad, and queen rework that, only look at like half the topic.
Hell, nowhere does it say “Queen screech is broken and needs a nerf”, without that same power being destributed across the castes.
Holy Shit, i hope you understand SPEC was added for a reason, I rather have the power on the queen who play the round that i know. than 5xx t3 who just fail. because they have to fight equally good as 5x t3 than 1x good queen. Is that what you are trying to say? Queen power to T3 instead? Queen power dived on all specs? so if one t3 fail they have to carry 33%more?. Oh I see, Queen is to impactful so we need to give that downwards to the to the frankly idiots who roll T3 so queen does not matter. Call me marine main, but i rather have a leader than random 4 random of failness. I rather have a Queen to respect than randomness of T3. Same reason we have CO. I rather have a bald queen, or a good one. not 4 good t3 or 4 uknown ones. When i roll xeno, i want atleast a header where the games go. what you want is just pure chaos. Me logging in, See L and mage and war, HUG. SAM. Were safe. Now its a prime game. They have to install like a buffer of fail, so every t3 “can” be bad. so if you see L and DP, WAR,MAGE, III, you are going to see fucking overlords without screech just taking your limbs off like toys
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Not sure your logic works there bud. As of right now, a good queen gives xenos about a 70% chance of winning in my experience, and a bad queen about a 20% chance, depending on server pop.
Saying, “I’d rather the queen be the most important role because it’s fun and lore accurate” is one thing, but saying that spreading that power out would lead to more unbalanced rounds because of bad t3s is a wacky, nonsensical take. The more players you spread out the firepower between, the better of an average sample you’ll get, and the less swingy it will be. That’s stats 101.
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You say all this as if the queen is always on top, but T3s can be anything from young to prime. What if the queen is bald? Queen is young and new to the game (played and died as runner for 10 hours before this). Should the game just be decided then? Make it so every T3 have to carry 100% more because one bald player? As said before, spreading out impact LESSENS the amount of sandbagging a single bad player can do across the game.
I have no idea where you are going with the rest of your paragraph. I am going to be honest with you.
I be honest with you, why does it matter? Do you hate new players that much it would hit your round so hard it would change it? You have played how many rounds in cm in total? Why does it bother you so much how it end up when after couple of hours there is going to be thousands more? Its honestly one round out of thousand, if it did not meet your expectation.. Honestly why even play. CM does not play it how you want it to go. Its not How CM work at all. THE GAME DOES NOT WORK HOW I WANT IT YOU TO DO. So here you are uh?, I am not here bitching. you are in the end. no matter what you say. And i love that. Been here in 2017 and you think you can talk over me. You are all newbies who does not know what suffering is. and i am a player, not a dev not a person you can hate,
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Pulling out hours means nothing.
Its not “rock, paper, scissors” dude. Yeah, Queen is bald, she screeches, T1s follow, second line marines who were ready for it quickly jump in for the kill. Queen is not bald, no such thing happens.
Pulling out the fact of how long time ago you hopped on CM train means just as much as 2k xeno hours. I was here before mutators, I was here when Queen had Crusher’s charge, I was here when xenos could drag revivable marine corpses, I was here when you could break out of nest. Some guy will jump out and say he was here since Nostromo map. Pointless.
That is the point. I think I was pretty much always in favour of spreading power from few individuals to the guys under. That is why I still call for Tank removal and I am gratefull that it is pretty much removed despite “Improve, don’t remove” policy. Tank was Marine version of Queen, if tankers were good, Hive could just all walk into poopy Trijent Dam’s water and chill there. If tankers were shit, xenos barerly had to show up themselfs for tank to roll over, FF and fuck marines in the butt. Same with specs currently, should be removed in favour of giving lowly PFCs slightly better stuff. We don’t need dedicated sniper spec, we could use PFC sniper with NVG 4x Smartscope on a bolt-action rifle. We don’t need Scout, nerfed cape for PFCs in req.
Also yeah, I know Stims exists, that is why I am against them existing in the current state. Just as with unmentioned OT.
Scout is at great risk doing that. Once a wise sweaty lurker main said: “Why U alone?”. And yeah, he can do that, but I think he should be removed in favour in more stealthy PFCs.
Besides you making a slippery slope argument, there is stuff to “moan” about. That stuff is Queen having too much of an impact.
And for everyone else’s fun it should be the other way around. Those 5xx T3s, those 10xx T2s and 15xx T1s should have more power given to them in exchange for Queen. Because this is what aforementioned Tank was for marines. Queen is good, xenos pretty much won, Queen is bad, xenos can just stand under landing DS to speed up their pathetic defeat.
Queen isn’t on a whitelist, pal. There is just as much chance for idiot to roll Queen. But “idiot” rolling T3 just dies and gets replaced by T2 in a minute. “Idiot” Queen wastes xenos entire round. In multiplayer games with strangers, it is better to spread the power so those instances of bald players don’t impact the game that much (there is also a thing so that robustos shouldn’t impact the game too much either, such as Queen).
Dude, you are fine with Queen role being powerfull, completly ignorning that there is bigger chance that one baldo rolls queen, than 4-5 baldos get T3s. What you propose is chaos, rounds not being really about teamwork, but about singular individuals and the rest just being PvE NPCs to slaughter. If that is your version of “order” and not chaotic at all, then I simply just have no words.
But fine, why don’t we just nerf PFCs and specs a little, but reintroduce old LTB tank, hmmm? Then you jump into the new round as a marine, check crew manifest, “oh, it’s John “Fury” Marine and Jane “Konig” Tiger, the most robust and meta tankers on the server, let me just pack more MREs and wood, we already won the round, might as well RP those 15 minutes we will get after deployment”. OR: “Oh, it’s some two fucking randoms with static looking names, time to pick a gun, load it, aim mouth and click on my sprite, this is going to be painfull 15 minutes after deployment and then 10 minutes of hijack”.
New copypasta has dropped, I will be the first one to claim it and post it in the appropriate thread.
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I brought up “Bald” players and new players since you brought up T3s being:
I have no idea why you are now trying to turn this around and accuse ME of being some elitist player who dosn’t want new players in the game. While YOU keep saying “I am a veteran, I play this game more than you, and I know how this game is supposed to be played”. Please stop playing both some moral guardian, while throwing out such elitist nonsense.
Please take a break, get some sleep, and then give it another try to read this thread. Because you are either not in a right state of mind, or just trolling.
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im on Licon’s side
There was broken mechanic like dragging reviable marines to a corner of the map that is gone. You have unfair mechanic of huggers in closet that is deleted due to landing gas. Every broken mechanic that is UNFAIR is gone. What this topic moans about there is already a weakness to it. I wish i could close this topic, its that stupid.
if you read what he’s saying he’’s right
just wanted to give the boy a +1 on confidence think he kinda gotta dogpiled bro
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If you read what original post is saying (and the thing we are discussing) then what he says is offtopic:
Then OP pointed out 4 possible “fixes” to the issue and removing Queen’s Screech is only one of them (while giving Queen marine stomping ablity and buffing the rest of the hive in exchange too). Acting like Screech currently is in a perfect state and any change to it would kill it, is simply wrong. If what other guys are saying is true and future Queen rework will give her limited ammount of Screech charges renewed by Ovi, it is not going to break the game.
So did you read what we are saying? It is not a topic: “Screech is OP, please nerf”. It is more, or less “Queen has too big of an impact, while other xenos are in her shadow, please rework”, or in simpler words the actual title: “Xeno balance and Queen impact”. I’m arguing that changing screech will not break the game, but screech in current state isn’t OP, simply other xenos are weaker for Queen to be super strong. Why we won’t let those poor souls “new players” which I’m accused of “hating” more power at Queen’s expense?
BTW, can two people arguing in one thread with very few posts be considered “dogpiling”? I think not.
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instead of screech, what if there was some kind of power queen could activate remotely to give a xeno a temporary shield to reflect damage? could have like 3 charges and a long cooldown. So instead of screeching frontline, 3 heavy hitters can soak up damage like hedgehog’s shield long enough to get some caps and then fall back