Xeno limb targeting

Now I’ve had this idea for some time now, and i think it could be a welcome one. and that is giving the different limbs, like hands nd feet, a miss chance if xenoes target them. Because i really don’t like the idea of a Rav for example, having to aim for feet and hands to basicly negate what little armour the marines have, and instead aim for easier to hit stuff, like chest, groin or head.

the only problem with this, is that you’d probably have to fudge the numbers for xeno attack damage, so its not a strict marine buff. Maybe even give stunned marines NO miss chance on their limbs and such.

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this could all be ignored if we had armor linking (all bodyparts have equal armor)

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To be honest I think the whole idea that hands and feet are the deadliest places to slash is silly. Realistically a slash to the chest should be more life threatening that a slash to the feet. In an ideal world xenos would slash chest/groin/head if they wanted to kill and slash hands/feet if they want to weaken you. Problem is the damage system treats all damage equally, so 20 damage on hands is just as deadly as 20 damage on chest, which is silly.
I don’t think a miss chance sounds like a good solution and with your example of ravs it wouldn’t affect ravs any differently than runners, all xenos would be equally affected by the miss chance so it’d just a flat nerf rather than a situational thing. And a frustrating RNG nerf at that. Although the stunned marines not having a miss chance is a cool idea

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How about instead of missing entirely, it just shifts the hit onto another body part. So if you wanna hit hands it’s a 30% chance to hit the hands, and a 70% chance to hit either the arm or chest, as an example.

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revive armor link

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Wasn’t the issue with armour linking that it made marines unbelievably tanky to xeno attacks?

As stupid as it is, the concept of xenos striking a marines hand or feet seems very much a pillar of xeno attack balance. A xeno trying to kill a marine wearing heavy armour and only by slashing the chest becomes a fools errand.

It already does that, and I believe it actually is a 70% chance to hit your target or it picks a random target from a weighted list (with stuff like chest being weighted higher and hands/feet being weighted lower)
Although this chance applies regardless of what you’re targeting so even if you’re targeting chest there’s a 30% chance it picks a random target from the weighted list

It’s really not though, most marines roll with light armor anyway which is not very tanky. You sure can say current system is a pillar, but on the other hand it fucks armor as a concept, heavy armor becomes a massive noob trap in 99% of cases. Better nerf armor in general, but add armor linking. Most xenos would target feet/hand anyway, because both turn into great fracs, but it at least wouldn’t be a really cheap way to avoid armor.

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Counterpoint, if armour linking is added I’d suggest there’s a strong chance heavy armour shifts into the meta, if you can get lunged by a warrior/lurker/whatever, tank 6 or more slashes and escape any kind of fracture, or at minimum still be able to stand up, shotgun the enemy, and retreat.

I do understand heavy armour is weak against xenos, however I think the strength of heavy armour is more for the FF defence and grenade resistance, I’ve survived multiple grenades and FF shots with no fractures that would’ve left a light armour user crippled.

All I’d say, with the new maintainers in charge, you could try the PR again and see if the new power’s that be are more receptive to the idea.

I disagree. Heavy armor has already got a major drawback and this drawback is speed. If you are slow you are more likely to get capped (because it’s harder to escape), more likely to be left behind during retreats, etc. More than that, quite counter-intuitive, if you are more tanky, you are also more likely to get capped instead of dying. Not to mention being slow makes it way harder to chase and kill retreating xenos, and you are very unlikely to kill anyone (besides young runner) without being able to chase. I don’t think being slow will ever be meta, but with armor linking it would be at least somewhat viable.

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i doubt heavy armour will ever become the meta pick in HvX even if armor linking becomes thing, just due to the fact that the ability to chase wounded xenos to finish them off is extremely important. either way, it’s all just numbers in the end. if armour becomes too tanky, just lower the values. it’s not really rocket science

Well it’s a consequence of how the medical system works.

You slash a guy in the chest, he gets a broken bone and is ok with a splint
You slash a guy in the hand, it falls off, and now he can’t use a gun and is mostly useless

Slashing hands/feet does more damage, the bonebreaks are more impactful with slowdowns and dropping things. Decapitations put the player out of action more completely than killing or organ damage does, and the marine spends 10x longer getting fixed up to fight again vs just splinting+drugs on the spot.

Then limb-decapitated marines also use up more resources to get a replacement AND it forces them to carry specialized repair gear, impacting their carry capacity and loadout.

 
Mechanically the game is strongly slanted towards targeting limbs. Marines have no options to mitigate it and no reason for xenos to ever target anywhere else either. It’s a handicap to target the chest over limbs.

Yet, every time we get a PR that tries to fix this problem, it’s reverted within days and then just forgotten about, left untouched for months again.

Glaring issues like this really shouldn’t be taking genuine years to get some kind of resolution. I really do not understand what the holdup is. We HAD PR’s fixing this problem ALREADY.

Why do they keep getting reverted?

Very simple, the game is balanced around hand and feet armor levels.

I’d like to add that most of the times a marine is dying to a xeno it’s because he was stunned, and heavy armor doesn’t mitigate or prevent stuns - if anything, it makes you getting grabbed/pounced even easier.

And once you’re stunned on the ground, and your hand is targeted - correct me if I’m wrong - you’re now taking the same damage through your hand as any marine in light armor would, until the hand+arm reaches their maximum damage and it transfers into the chest and subsequent damage reduction.

So on top of all the downsides, you also hardly benefit from greater damage reduction with heavy armor.

The only thing that’s of any benefit with heavy/medium armor is the friendly fire protection. If you aren’t worried about that, you shouldn’t wear either.

@Ediblebomb That’s an excuse, not a reason. We could easily change what things are balanced around with the PR’s.

We should be fixing armor so it works in an intuitive common sense way:
The default choice of targeting chest should be the ideal for a xeno player, and limb targeting something you do on a case by case basis. Right now, if you want to kill as fast as possible, you target a limb and in doing so you ALSO benefit from the handicap that damage imposes.

There’s no tradeoff - it’s entirely get your cake and eat it too, and that’s the fundamental problem with it.

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But why would we? Genuinely why would we change a working system, and how would we change it, if you think delimbs are too much, nerf em, don’t change the entire armor balance for no reason.

The main reason to support moving away from limb-targeting to chest-targeting is more so for new players.

I took quite a while to learn that xenos need to target limbs to do optimal damage.

There is about 30% chance xeno would miss the limb and attack a random limb instead. And there is a chance it would be chest or groin, which have the most armor. So technically, you can take less damage even if xeno target an unprotected limb… But this is just a chance, not even big one.

It’s not working. It never worked. What makes you think it’s working? Light armor has always been the best pick, if I am not mistaken, just recently other armors got decent bio protection, it used to be that light armor protected better against acid than heavy armor. Now imagine wearing heavy armor (that obliterates your speed) and actually take MORE damage. This is how fucked the system was (IF it is changed, I am still not quite sure).

Again, even with armor linking limb targeting won’t disappear, because still for many castes breaking legs is most useful thing to do.

I think armor linking would be fine, so long as it adds 0 internal armor (yes, even for EOD).

The biggest drawback for EOD and Medium is not necessarily movespeed, it’s that they are WAY slower then light armor users when slowed down, like from bonebreaks (even splinted ones) and crowd control abilities. The reason you take EOD though is so that you get less bonebreaks from FF, which lets you sustain on the front with much less variability.

All you have to do is dodge xenos (which is pretty damn easy, even with EOD and medium armor), as opposed to dodging marine stupidity (which is next to impossible, and the primary source of frontline bone breaks). This means with good play you can avoid bonebreaks (and all the headaches that come along with it) for the whole round, however if you misplay you have to go and get it fixed often (as it should be when you are more tanky then average).

You also have a more difficult time chasing xenos, which means your best play is often to just play it safe using EOD or Medium armor. It promotes a more reliable playstyle that sustains longer on the front. You won’t have as much kill pressure, but you will rarely be instakilled due to splints coming undone, FF, or some mix of the two.

If you buff internal resist on Feet though, there is no counter to EOD armor. You can just out tank all the xenos and never get permanent injury. Not balanced at all, too much sustain would both be frustrating to fight and make the game too easy for the marine using it: they don’t have to be cautious because they know they won’t get bonebroken. It’d instantly go from 4-5 slashes for a bonebreak to something more like 8-12, which is wayyyyy too much. That’s like 10 seconds purely of slashing one dude’s foot just to give them that permanent injury. Noone likes dumping their attacks into a damage sponge for 0 benefit, all while the dude can just run away, retaliate, etc. All this will serve to do is make it frustrating to fight, when it’s already good enough as is.

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