Alright this has been an ongoing issue for survivor where the Xenos meta rush where they are going to hold. Such as forecon on LV522 as forecon gets the gear from the dropship the xenomorphs are over there meta rushing the LZ tunnels. Why are they allowed to do that? It makes the game unfun for the survivors. I understand survivors are meant to have a hard time, but this is getting to the point of really starting to fucking piss people of that. what do you guys think about the rush.
Is it meta to hide in the most defendable place as a survivor?
Would the xenos, having knowledge of the terrain, its features, and positions actually be committing “Meta” if they move to a fortifiable position to prevent an enemy force from digging in? They did just digest a considerable number of folks on the ground and fight for control of the colony.
I think it’s less “Meta” and more map design issue.
I do understand your pain, but you gotta understand that the first one there wins.
Personally, I’d make it so you can’t acid until 00:10 cause drones can melt everything in seconds, that includes Solaris Mining area cause the tunnel spawns right there
How about not going to the same place as survivor every single game then xenos can’t metarush it?
Litteraly get more then one place to hold. try holding the dropship up north for a change, as theres only one way in without a crusher or burrower.
This can be solved by one very simple solution.
Instead of rushing secure dome, why dont you go corpo or nexus?
Instead of rushing garage, why dont you go telecomms, or engineering?
Instead of rushing ice lake, why dont you hold canteen?
Its pretty cringe when a drone melts everything because they’ve got some funny tunnels, but at the same time, its also a little bit unfair for the xenomorphs when survivors constantly go to the most cheesiest locations possible and try get a easy 1 kill 00:15 survival.
Personally, I find so much more entertainment and sucsess in going to the other locations mentioned above, they’re interesting, and well in some cases actually a lot better alternative.
The thing is some gear is really really good for pushing the odds in your favour as a surv. In sec dome there’s a flamer, pulse rifle, two extended mags, a shotgun and shotgun shells. All of this near a tunnel that xenos are going to use to b-line to it so both sides rush to it. Other maps also have some really good gear that both sides are ofcourse going to b-line to at all costs. Its just part of the game although I do wish there were a few seconds of time where everythings just frozen so survs could atleast quickly talk about where to hold without losing precious time they need to spend looting.
all you need to do is just yell on comms “SEC HOLD SEC HOLD SEC HOLD” and most survs will just flock there. Survivors rarely go against the herd.
Very true. Break the meta.
Perhaps the survs can increase their chances of surviving without the hive mind working at the very beginning of the round, so that the queen can only give general directives, much like commanding the marines without comms, and closer to the landing the newborn queen can establish a connection between the xenomorphs. Then it will make sense to make shelters in unexpected places and there will be time to strengthen it.
Also, T1 castes will not run so robustly, especially alone. By the time he runs to look for reinforcements and gather a team for caps, it will be time for a T3 assault on the fortification.
i, too, hate when the bad guys metarush the meta spot that i’m trying to metarush
if you go to the meta hold every round as surv…
then just find a different spot?
Metaholds get metarushed, thats how it works with Surv vs Xeno. If you don’t like it, don’t play surv… Makes the game more fun for everyone when theres less people relying on metaholds. Or, just get good.
It’s just as unfun to be forced to metarush a spot, as it is to “get countered from metarushing a spot”. For example, Secdome is the most boring ass surv hold possible for Xenos. That’s why xenos metarush it: because if they don’t, they are forced to sit on their asses for 20 minutes hoping for a t3 to help. Noone wants you to get annoying shit without a fight, especially since survs focus that shit as fast as possible.
And with survhunting… Xenos form their own formulaic pattern just as much as Survs do, with where they go, what they focus on, and the route they take. That’s just the way it works with survhunting- both sides take the quickest or most efficient routes. It’s no holds barred, when it comes to strategy- all slime tactics are on the table for both sides.
The same for LV-522 tunnels or rushing crashed ship on LV-522… It’s boring and formulaic as hell.
Still, it’s better to metahold then to lockerhide at least.
Like sergey said too, theres a lot of really good hold spots that xenos cant easily metarush or predict. Your skill as a survivor depends a lot on map knowledge, game knowledge, how well you can throw xenos off your trail, and how good you are mechanically. Teamwork is often very important too… After all, 2 survs shooting 1 drone kills it almost instantly.
Solution could be:
-to have more valid places to hold as survivors.
-give survivor a longer time to prepare by forbid evolve from larva for X min.
-give xeno a debuff before
-give survivors more supplies to make most place a solid hold…(mats guns etc…)
-remove/move some tunnels to give survivors a breathing space…
but i don’t think forbiden early rush to survivor by rules is the way to go to fix the problem…
I feel that survivor is simply a game concept that has had very little dev attention. The reason I believe is that it is not at all a relevant part of the game.
At best survivors serve as something for Xenomorphs to busy themselves with in the early game aside from weeding the colony and smashing windows. However, if this is the case, I feel that the best path forward is that survivors need a change to what they have to do.
Some changes such as giving survivors actual breathing room to talk and setup, and giving them some kind of actual objective to accomplish such as repairing an escape ship (that can dock with the Almayer or let the survs respawn as Marines etc, etc, etc) or powering some defensive system to let them hold out till the Marines arrive would help. Give guidance and a objective to the survivors instead of leaving it in its free-for-all setup.
You could also set a system where a survivor can be given priority for xeno rolls when they die, or be given the chance to respawn as a Marine rifleman, so that they at least get a reasonable chance to return to the game.
I think most of these solutions will only serve to bolster metaholds. More supplies means more metal they can path to, more metal they can use to cade up their metahold.
Xenos don’t need a debuff- they already have 5 minutes where they are forced to be drone (Survs can fight drones by outplaying drones).
Removing tunnels just serves to let survs get OP items that they overrely on- such as incen ammo. Or, allows them to force unfun holds such as Secure Dome. Corpodome in comparison is MUCH more fun to fight as xeno since it’s more open, and theres more routes that survs have to defend. Layers of counterplay provide good gameplay!
Meanwhile secdome… survs rush 1 button. weld in. 20 minute wait for xenos (and survs) until t3s. Why even play surv at that point? That’s why metarush is good for the game in that situation.
More valid places to hold is good… I think map changes make the most sense, so long as they don’t bolster the aforementioned unfun holds… More gameplay is fun, and the source of gameplay in surv vs xeno is long term planning from both sides, as said before… layers of counterplay is SUPER important with surv/xeno.
Surv wins with what they are able to do before they die, and xeno wins when they kill survs. That’s what makes surv fun for both sides- it’s a win-win situation regardless, so you shouldn’t aim to make it easier for survs or xenos at the expense of either sides enjoyment. It’s like a coffeebreak roguelike where you hop on, have some fun, die, and move on.
The thing about metarush/metahold/metaloot, they counter themselves out. So it’s fine.
I think breathing room and being able to talk with eachother is fine: bolsters up teamwork, gives them a more actionable plan, lets them prepare to move around and do everything.
But don’t let them get resources, guns, etc until xenos can fight them. They WILL abuse EVERY SINGLE THING you give them for free.
If for example, xenos cant go into colony for 5 minutes. Survs will have 5 cadelines in Garage with 2 flamers, molotovs, inc slugs, a medvendor (defib included), and the tac shotty from Lambda. Survs will have Secdome on lock with a medvendor, a shotgun for everyone, a rifle for everyone, and every wall-pre caded because they had so much time to collect metal. Survs will have a free ticket to get colony van and romp around the colony.
All of this, fighting t1s and t2s. Basically a free ticket to survival.
Giving them too much time just kills it… The items survs get are OP, but balanced by everything having counterplay… They don’t have the time to get everything, so they just have to get better at the game, figure out plans, and have better teamwork! Nothing is a hard counter either. Survs can always win by just practicing and getting better at fragging. (win being subjective, as in doing well as a survivor even if you die. Your meant to die as surv! That means you can do MORE as surv, and worry less about death.)
Right now, hardly any xenos even search for survs, because it is scary and they don’t want to die early. Most of the people who play surv actively have played surv a LOT. They’re scary in mechanical skill, and able to kill a lot of xenos easily. A lot of people argue there is negative advantage from hunting survs.
Honestly tho, if survs were able to like, roll early, sit in a room and talk about their plans for a few minutes before getting dropped on the colony, getting to know eachother. That’d help surv gameplay a lot. Just so long as they don’t gain any major mechanical advantage before xenos are able to fight. (ie: they shouldn’t be able to pick up resources, guns, supplies, etc)
Survs are a roleplay role made to die. They should feel fear from the xenos existence and how their chance of survival is slim, and that is what makes the role fun. I still think its worth it tho just to give surv that slight push out of rng territory…
I think current surv v xeno gameplay is fun and fine! It doesn’t need fundamental changes, but changes to shake up the meta or bolster surv teamwork would always be welcome. Things like map changes especially. Better opponents make WAY better fights imo.
The fun from surv v xeno is that it’s cut alot of the fat from marine vs xeno… A lot less cheese tactics, more 1v1/1v2, and faster time to kill for both sides.
That’s what I find fun: it’s far more brutal and solo-focused then marine vs xeno where you are just a cog in the machine, where individuals are more powerful and you don’t have to rely on the RNG factors of “whos playing marine/xeno today?”. You can fight 1v4s commonly… while having a good chance at winning. And fights like that are SO fucking fun, for everyone involved. Very few things in this game get the adrenaline pumping that much.
A lot of xenos don’t realize what surv gameloop is like because they ignore it. So it’s usually just 2-3 xenos fighting 4-5 survs… on lowpop, 1–2 xenos fighting 2-3 survs…
I think being able to respawn as rifleman after dying as surv is an amazing change! That’d be great for surv mains, and encourage more people to learn the role and actually rp. A lot of robust riflemen would roll for the role, since they aren’t restricted from it. That will be fun to fight. And a lot of good RPers who don’t want to get out of round early will roll it more, since they aren’t restricted.
They don’t need xeno priority tho, since they already die early and get priority that way. The queue is short before marines land, and giving them increased priority would only punish xenos who decide to fight survs and unfortunately die trying. (meaning way less xenos fight survs) or push them ahead of people who observed to get xeno (makes no sense).
The only reason permadeath is so punishing in ss13, is because the server doesn’t have capability to run multiple rounds at once. But with surv, you have no excuse to have permadeath be so punishing. And if you want to prevent meta, you can just have survs only able to respawn after 20 minutes of round have passed, or when marines have landed.
It would not be meta rush for the Survivors because they already know the colony they lived there and would know the best spots to hold.
I’ll be honest in saying that I dont really play survivor, but I do play xeno and I do also go out and hunt survivors near the roundstart if I roll for xeno.
I get the frustration but we already have quite a few gameplay restrictions in place that help out survivors.
Moderating how xenos are able to interact with survs would lead to a really strange dynamic where survivors are allowed to try and play the game optimally while xenos aren’t really allowed to play the game to its fullest.
Right now, from a moderation side of things, its fine that both sides know the maps and play to their strengths on those maps.
All I can really add to what has already been said is that survs can always try shaking up what they do to have a more fun experience and maybe make some 4d chess moves to outplay xenos.
A couple of examples that may or may not be good ideas (I’m not a surv main I really dont know):
- Is there a gap in east fog on LV? Maybe try holding SE of the sand temple. There aren’t any tunnels nearby and it can be easy for xenos to forget to check that spot.
- On chances claim maybe try out the NE crashed ship. Xenos tend to avoid that place because of the claymores and because its out of the way. You can probably do fun holds with the unbreakable dropship walls. (You are very far away from any marines landing though so it’ll be tough to live/get recovered!)
- On big red it can be hard to find different spots but try out the mining area. Like the other spots I mentioned its out of the way and there is some decent loot there also. The more challenging parts are dealing with the weeds and the risk that you run into a mining hive. But if you manage to get your hands on some C4 I think you can probably blow up the tunnel there without xenos noticing that its gone.
My other advice would be that xenos are weak early in the round. Chasing down the drones and defenders can really put a dent into their later numbers. And if a hive is losing lots of xenos to survs it will be a coinflip on if the queen will want everyone to help out or decides to cut her losses and totally forbids the hive from attacking the survs. It might be worthwhile to take that gamble sometimes.
Nerfing xenoes to make survivor easy isn’t the way to do it my guy. Esspeccially making it so only queen gets to play the game for the first 5 minutes of the game, as it would affect the defences for when marines come down.
But all in all, the best answer to metarushes is to not metarush yourself. Don’t go for the same spot every time expecting the xenoes not to do it. Go somewhere else and the xenoes will have to find your hold first, giving you valuable time to set up shop.2
YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO SURVIVE, HOW MANY TIMES, BRING BACK ROUNDSTART EVO IM TIRED OF YOU BABIES THINKING YOU SHOULD LIVE NO MATTER WHAT!!! BRING BACK BOO AT THE MEDVENDOR AT 0:05