We have a main battle rifle (m41a MK1 and 2), a Marksmen’s rifle ( M4RA), And a PDW ( M39).
But we lack a proper carbine, the M39 has way to poor Accuracy, Scatter, and Range. The M39 can be mod’ed to fit a carbine roll some what but in doing so it loses speed which is the key point of even having a carbine like gun.
What’s more you can’t fix the fall off issues with the M39 by mod’ing it.
So what we need is a proper carbine same speed, better range, accuracy, scatter but losing much of the RPM and keeping the low damage of the 10x20 rounds.
yes the MK2 got a good range but you get a lot of slow down, the point of a carbine gameplay wise is having a fast to move with weapon, that can still hit at range. A carbine will be a fitting gun for the Commtechs and medics, yes the M39 can mag dump on a runner but if i am behind a line its not really that useful, or if i am running and the xenos are more than 4 tiles away, or if you need to put down suppression fire the fall off of the M39 makes it quite pointless to do. A carbine will fit in neatly inbetween the M39 and M41A, still lightweight and Easley wielded, with out the crazy spread.
No not really the issue with the M4RA is that it gives you a bit too much slow down and has terrible ammo economy, what’s more the RPM is a bit too slow. if i am a medic or a commtech the only reason i am going to use it is for the smart scope.
although i neglected to say so in the heading post one of the thing is having good ammo economy.
The M4RA will not really fit the proper roll for a carbine in CM, as really a carbine is for back line troops IE commtechs and medics, lads who as it is need all the space they can get.
also correct me if i am wrong but the a-grip only makes it faster to be able to use your gun after welding it… not making you faster or lower the amount of slow down you get, well weld delay is part of what i am thinking about it more so the welded slow down i am thinking about.
Now that a great idea.
EDIT: seem the M4RA doesn’t have any slow down but still its not quite fitting.
EDIT 2: ok i was wrong the M4RA does work fairly well as a carbine, shame the ammo economy is so bad.
Hard disagree, in my experience the carbine is superior to the Rifle for HvH purposes.
240 RoF, 33 AP DMG
vs
150 RoF, 40 AP DMG
Overall DPS is significantly higher, whilst being pretty much identical in terms of accuracy. Effective range and falloff doesn’t matter because all HvH combat takes place within or around screen range (7 tiles).
If we go by the wiki, its 176 vs 137 dps (carbine then rifle). But I don’t know how far i would trust the wiki as it litterary says 20 damage on its carbine AP mag, with another 20 on the rifle AP mag. Because it felt just way worse whenever i try it in either HvH or as an ERT.
it has no slow down and no wield delay. however, it’s still a shit gun due to the reasons you listed, and i’d never actually use it unless i was a part of a 20 man smartscopes squad
Carbines great ye - i choose it very often when going upp
its got smg movespeed
o wow didnt know this. awesome!
Also effective range does matter. Binoc combat is one of the most powerful ways to play in HVH esp. around long hallways and open areas.
All scopes give u slowdown thats natural.
and the ammo economy is improved if u take mk2 mags and just refill the m4ra mags manually. - the bullets are worth more in a m4ra then in a mk2 so if u miss a bullet it eats away at more dps then if u miss a mk2 bullet.
So uuh, i think scope m4ra has potential if u figure out a playstyle just because of the power of range but that’s an uphill battle (esp. because of how low it makes the dps). discovering a new effective playstyle is a lot LOT harder then following in the footsteps of someone else which is why almost noone who got good at the game bothered with it. (esp. with guns that are harder to just visualize what to do… scopes are not used at ALL so its hard to naturally realize what situations they’re good in!)
however some ppl have used scopes, i’ve seen
larry cornelius does (i dont actually think he shoots through scope), i’m pretty sure nile shihol uses scope on m4ra sometimes (idk if they stopped i cant blame them if so - i may be misremembering the person too). but otherwise not enough cookers in the kitchen. I’m sure it’s effective in backline chasing if backline is flared (plus it looks really cool).
i can’t backline for shit so i can’t rly comment other then the ppl i’ve seen using it
im sure some high hr pfcs who used all guns might have used scope too.
But I don’t personally see it as promising that things will change unless perception of scopes changes
Scopes will always be bad unless you give them NVG. They already massively slow the rate of fire, nothing will die offscreen unless it is a larvae, or hugger and potential scope-only NVG for every PFC won’t be broken since you can’t move much when scoped anyway. x4 should even give IFF on top of NVG.
ya thats what i mean by lower dps also those suggestions are terrible imo
low dps weapon w/ good range tho? that has potential is what i’m saying since any extra dmg is better then no dmg. (although a low dps weapon will be outclassed by a higher dps weapon if u can fulfill the criteria of dps since that will eventually have dealt more dmg and pressure then the low dps weapon ever could have. If the extra dps does nothing too (like not used for finishing off a target or pressuring or smth), there is no point to scope since theres likely better time investments like figuring out your targets or protecting medics or smth.
but still useful, time investment is not that much for the advtg u get)
still a micro advantage is a micro advantage and thats part of what seperates the chum from the slop… i dont think its worth the wield delay tho lol. If extra wield delay got removed on scopes it’d be an immediately viable choice imo. maybe a little bit worse then reflex sight on mk2 bcus u might have to pop stock to range past 4-5 tile
with ag it is a bit higher wield delay then ugl (or ubs, or ubf) (default wield delay) + rs gun which is not a good use of ag imo
on m4ra its almost instawield with ag + scope so its pretty viable there if u dont want magharn
still very situational (and when used out of good situations its worse then base gun). that’s why it’s associated as a noob pick and noone rly uses it.
honestly tho… after a bit of cooking 2 bullets of revo scope is a mk2 burst. Scope might not be as bad as people think. That’s a huge advantage if u are the one choosing the fight!
even on 25 armor… its 150 dmg with 3 bullets! that’s a very good advantage going into a fight
But dont expect it to do more then 150 dmg with scope AFTER u hurt a xeno. They’ll only take the bullets beforehand imo
It’s a fair point, but I’ve found that when I use my binoculars, it’s just more useful to know where they’re coming and where they’re likely to go so I can prefire their ass into oblivion. In these cases the carbine is just plain superior in every way (better move speed, equivalent DPS to MK2 while having infinite AP mags), since at near-screen ranges the carbine is still better damage-wise than the rifle.
Whenever I’ve tried shooting people who are significantly offscreen with rifles, it’s quite rare I actually hit them since people have an annoying tendency to move around- Though it’s really funny when they actually die because they attended the Prometheus school of running away from things in a straight line.
Overall, I think off-screen murdering is too niche and inconsistent in HvH to give the rifle a decisive edge. Totally agree with hallways though- I don’t think there’s anything you can do in that case, it’s just suicide to push since you can’t sidestep.
Regarding scopes, I genuinely believe anything other than the B8 is ass. If you aren’t the sniper, using a scope means you’re putting rounds into the backs of other marines when they push. Furthermore, the damage is too shit to be that effective on boilers even during FOB sieges- All they need to do is ask daddy defender to stand in front.
i tried to use the M4RA like a carbine and it works better that i thought, i think i was getting thrown for a loop as i mostly used it with a scope. it still has issues but it is close to what i was thinking.
The minimal storage space niche is already filled by the M39, with its belt being able to hold 2 extra magazines in addition to the gun itself (use extended magazines).
If you like the marksman you might as well just get a XM88; it almost never runs out in req due to its niche nature, does huge damage even if you do not direct hit, you get tons of ammo even without asking for more, and direct hits add AP per hit so your rewarded for being skilled with it.
but that’s an uphill battle (esp. because of how low it makes the dps). discovering a new effective playstyle is a lot LOT harder then following in the footsteps of someone else which is why almost noone who got good at the game bothered with it. (esp. with guns that are harder to just visualize what to do… scopes are not used at ALL so its hard to naturally realize what situations they’re good in!)