Lately there has been an issue popping up once in a while. Not often enough to make a fuss, but enough to be seen. CO WL players has been using BE, a tool used to permanently remove problematic players from the game(team balance them into xeno), has been repeatedly used to gain unfair advantage over hostile factions or just in general to remove possibilities for RP.
I personally fell victim to this 2 times before, as hostile CLF survivor, where me and my team breached into CIC and got gunned down, only for the CO to come up and BE us one by one, when the danger has passed. First time we were completely wiped, there was no threat left shipside and xenos were sieging FOB steadily, but we got denied our lives because The Angel of Death decided that our souls deserve eternal damnation. Second time we were mostly wiped due to a lucky MP bringing a flashbang and abusing it to kill us, with only our synthetic escaping into maints. You could argue BEing was justified, due to the synth roaming the ship, but this couldâve been a perfect time for hostage situation, where marines force the synth out of hiding to try and bargain for their brethren. Nobody says CO must negotiate with the terrorist robot, but even just luring the synth out wouldâve been a perfect little RP situation. But what do we have in the end? A bunch of corpses, marines winning the round anyhow, but the xenos managing a sneaky hijack last second, all with minimal effort.
I hate Brig RP as much as the next guy, but permanently removing people for existing and doing their roleâs intended purpose is⌠Low Roleplay. This is practically the same as a guy in maints clicking antagâs head with a toolbox until it pops, but because the person doing it has the special badge of approval its suddenly okay to do that. I have nothing against CO players, but I do think the Code of Conduct should be changed to reflect the ârecentâ rule changes. In my own eyes CO WL exists to enforce higher levels of RP among marines, not to get a free hall pass to round remove people they do not like. I am sure more people can agree with the last statement.
I think the stupidest thing about this is that the CLF is not allowed to permakill Marines (as far as I know). If CO is allowed to use his BE ability on CLF, at the very least CLF should be allowed to C4/throw down the ASRS/drop on the landing pad the CO.
How did you even get on the ship? Was it ultra-low pop or what?
EDIT:
So just to be sure, instead of the CO BEing you in the CIC, you want them to revive you, process you, and then execute you for terrorism?
As a hostile force (the synth) is on the ship provost appeals can be denied, as can most normal execution procedure, so this shouldnât take very long at all.
Exactly. CLF are supposed to be the evil terrorists that burn corporates and their families alive, skin CMB officers and then play football with their heads. But due to rules they have to wage conventional war, without the things that make them terrorists, the whole reason why CLF isnt JUST separatists. Whole âno permakillingâ rule was made to prevent marines magdumping CLF till their heart breaks or the CLF beheading MPs in maints.
On topic of that, I think CLF CO should be able to behead people with his katana in a little wind-up action instead of firing mateba\other pistol, if COs are capable of BEing hostile people.
It was medium-lowpop both times I think, around 80-100 people. Both times we took the CLF van and drove into FOB, gunned down bravo and the DP, then quickly took off in the Dropship shipside and drove out with the van to not get mowed down, then ran into maints to reach CIC. First time I think we also actually killed the entire IO team and couldve just taken Normandy, but destroying FOB is cinematic.
To be hostile you need two things: Have your factionâs uniform, not any other(was noted for running around in UPP uniform as CLF surv once), and to be âconsistently hostileâ, aka you must always try to kill the other team within your capabilities. Being revived by marines and while uncuffed not trying to slice up the medic healing you technically makes you no longer hostile, but if you were cuffed you can go hostile when you prisonbreak and get your uniform. Dont quote me on that, that stuff is all kinds of iffy, but usually MPs babysit CLF enough not to let them have a chance to kill people again
Yes, this also leaves a chance for the synth to MAY BE free someone or the CLF to break cuffs and get their revenge out. Plus you probably shouldnt be able to BE people until after utterly defeating their faction, aka killing\capturing active combatants, but thatâs probably harder to ensure if someone decides to abuse that and hides somewhere to ensure essentially eternal protection from execution. Would be solveable by admins forcing them to fight\allowing the CO to do it in those edge cases.
As I said, I hate Brig RP as much as the next guy, but that would be much better than CO just running around BEing corpses. This ALSO applies to UPP, who arent terrorists and are PoW, so cannot be executed like CLF. I seen COs BE UPP during hijack or after round end to deny recovery of bodies, thatâs why the name of the whole discussion is âHostile Factionsâ and not âBEs and CLFâ.
The 4th thread on this in recent months and Iâm yet to see an original argument. Hell what Iâm about to say isnt even original but here we go.
Back when CLF surv wasnt spawned in groups and when I played MP, I can count on my hands the amount of times I saw a captured CLF do anything near MRP, other than logging out, smashing their shoe at the window until they get the jacket. Those people who were are mentors/admins/WL holders.
I dont get what the majority of people who are arguing for BEs for CLF to go are arguing for. Iâve seen it time and time again, new nurse #34912 revives CLF wearing uniform, they run off wordlessly and shoot marines. âWow! The CO not blasting their brains out made my RP experience feel so much more improvedâ, I think as I get shot outside my eyevision with a M4RA.
Unlike predators who at least RP amongst themselves, or at least play games with their targets, I dont see CLF rping unless theyâre the synth or theyâve permanently retreated to the CLF base.
For marines to stop having a âI dont have to listen to silly rulesâ button that they can use to just remove someone from the game. Yes, capturing CLF is essentially like capturing a xeno, but at least dont round remove us if we can still play the game without being brigged(recovered by teammates). Its like if the queen could headbite people near the hivecore to make them perma instead of having to use the gib ability to gib them one by one every 15 minutes.
Only argument people have FOR round removing CLF or other hostile humans to Marines is âThey dont matterâ or âI am the protagonist I should be killing xenos instead of fighting random terroristsâ. Really makes you think that perhaps xenos and marines arent so radically different afterall, when it comes to fighting humansâŚ
the âintended purposeâ of the role is killing the COâs staff/subordinates and/or sabotaging a military spacefaring vessel, what do you expect them to do? Just let you get back up and kill more of their staff or sabotage or even hijack their ship?
The main issue is that no one has any chill. Theres a LOT of bad faith regarding CLF to the point its just shoot on sight and you cant really blame them when both sides play like shitters and ignore RP completely. CLF shooting people from the darkness and off screen to score any kills they can which in turn pisses the Marines off so now theyâre strapping C4 to CLF on sight. The CLF loot the bodies then throw them into a corner, while Marines do the same to the CLF.
COs BEing CLF is just a faster step of not having to deal with the problem in the fastest and most absolute way possible so everyone can get back to focusing on the xenos.
What about arresting the CLF? Well now you have to worry about them getting out or capped during hijack or the MP making a mistake or the MT breaking them out and when the CLF gets out they are going right back into the darkness to shoot you again. Itâs not worth the trouble, which is a shame because I reckon there are some really fun RP angles you could take but that would mean weâd have to have a bit of good faith for once.
TLDR: People being shitters is why we canât have nice things but weâre far past the point of fixing it.
I think we should all be able to BE. When everyoneâs a kingâŚno one is
Real talk I understand sort of whatâs up with Jules and othersâ interpretation of something here being wrong. COs do their thing right, rule-abiding marines/CLF do their thing right, the problem is thereâs an overlap between rules and CoC where they say different things. And this introduces a Grey area no-manâs land for people with access to a certain mechanic.
But like no-manâs land, youâre on your own in whatever you do there. My spiel takeaway is like rule 0, not every scenario can be correctly elaborated in advance and people do in fact need to use their discretion to make snap judgments. But I also think current WL COs are pretty darn good at doing that and what they do with BEs on hostile forces has, to me, seemed defensible from a moderating standpoint. I donât think theyâre out to ruin rounds or be megashitters, I think it comes from exactly the opposite place of âoh fuck I donât want these people revived because I want to preserve the rounds of all the people playing marineâ.
Based on the moderation teamâs response, the situation basically reads to me like nobody is allowed to permanently, purposefully remove CLF/hostiles from a round unless they are a CO specifically using the BE ability or they have been convicted/sentenced to death under ML.
Is this correct? I donât really understand how that jives with the rules on not RRing hostile factions, but it could be easily solved by indicating this exact thing/exception in the rules.
As MP, even if you do just keep them in custody (not going for execution, and even giving yard time) many people will still act like youâre a horrible person for not releasing them. (If they are released they will likely start round removing as many people as possible but people canât seem to think this far ahead). Or theyâll just get broken out by a random MT because that MTâs modus operandi is deconstructing parts of brig rather than finding ways to help the operation. The âMP badâ brain rot in action.
If you donât want to have your head aerated with a .454 round, donât sign up for the hostile faction thatâs attacking a combat command and lose
i donât get this constant misdirection. i donât like any intentional permadeath as it doesnât maximize fun for players, thatâs why itâs against the rules, but rules have been shown to not apply to COs
if i am CLF synthetic (i donât even play survivor but hypothetically), and i intentionally permadeath the CO, i will likely get permabanned
rules for thee not for me
As MP, even if you do just keep them in custody (not going for execution, and even giving yard time) many people will still act like youâre a horrible person for not releasing them. (If they are released they will likely start round removing as many people as possible but people canât seem to think this far ahead). Or theyâll just get broken out by a random MT because that MTâs modus operandi is deconstructing parts of brig rather than finding ways to help the operation. The âMP badâ brain rot in action.
and respectfully this is 100% a valid point, all the posts about CLF being shitheels have been valid, but the actual discussion isnât about living hostiles. the OP discussion that people keep misdirecting from is thatCOs are allowed to infinitely perma already-dead players using a mechanical exploit â even the Queen canât do that, she can gib 1 person every 15 minutes. there is NOTHING stopping COs from doing this during actual well-put-together HVH
if my player report was closed with the ruling âoh well it was EORD, just some bullshit, but if it was a mid-round HVH weâd consider this abuseâ thatâd be completely reasonable, but it wasnât closed with that, it was closed with âitâs MRP itâs fineâ â meaning there is no case-by-case, COs are completely exempt to the rule and can mass permadeath already-dead players while I canât permadeath the CO â- in fact the CO councilor in that report (nothing against him personally) said â[itâd be] borderline LRP NOT to [Battlefield Execute 5+ corpses]â
at that point you might as well just let COs hide bodies and C4 players, in fact those things are harder to do then BEing 5+ corpses like in my report
i think genuinely the fix is Iâll just put up a PR removing the ability to BE corpses, if it wonât be fixed through policy maybe itâll be fixed through code
âŚWhich is why BEs are stated to be an exemption to the permakilling rules. Comparing something that doesnât exempt it to something that does barely makes sense
