Battlefield Executions and Hostile Factions

General Discussion
26

I mean shit man if we’re cool with it I’ll start surrounding marine corpses with triplethick walls as Xeno. If they get revived and continue fighting, they’re a threat. It’s what OUGHT to happen @Ediblebomb @szymonalex1231

Oh wait id get banned and I’m not a dick so I wouldn’t do that

@onetoughcreampuff Your escaping the scope of the arguement while complaining about people being off topic.

the scope of the argument is literally that a CO went and BE’d 5+ already dead CLF while a CLF medic was still alive

he could’ve just let them rot or guarded the bodies, but he wanted to Win

c4ing corpses=exploit, ur banned

hiding corpses=griefing, ur banned

walling off corpses=griefing/metagaming, ur banned

Queen gibbing=once every 15 minutes with long long windup

But BEing 5+ corpses in the span of 2 minutes=suddenly intended, its high roleplay

Weird

@Cabal me being a super coolio CLF player shooting marines from darkness with scopes, abusing van, fucking with noobie bravo PVTs, when COs permakills my corpse.

That is bullshit, that is unfair!

You being a Marine, I shoot you from darkness with scope

I permakill your corpse

That is bullshit that is unfair!

I’m done with the forums for a couple months I think

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27

If you attack the ship you do so with the knowledge that you will:

A: Be shoved in a cell for the rest of the round and do nothing.

OR

B: Die and at least get to observe the round.

Maybe it’s just me having played too much PvE, but treating permakilling like it’s some kind of sin is silly IMO. You fought and lost, dying and staying dead isn’t some grief tactic, it’s what ought to happen.

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28

Nope. Can’t do it. You cant even shoot the dead in HVH. (Provided the mode is set and all of that junk)

Theres no exploit. Its intended.

Your escaping the scope of the arguement while complaining about people being off topic. No Councillor will allow for any CO to BE everyone.

That’ll get you gitbanned probably.

What are you expecting. If you’re a hostile UPP or a hostile CLF, 70% of the time your going to perma anyway, 10% of the time your going to be revived by a new nurse and put down. Is this argument entirely because you want to chase that 10% for a chance to frag again?

And even if your a clf survivor and its not delta alert, CO’s dont BE CLF survivors without a good reason or a in the moment hostility.

Even in a world where you dont get perma’d. Chances are your not being revived or brigged at round end. This is just a mechanical prevention for dumb nurses. It’s locked to a WL’d role who is verified by the council as a Good Guy ™.

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29

Most logical take.

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30

Sure. But I say atleast make it equal. If you spawn as a CLF surv you have as much of a right to playing the game as john rifleman. So in turn they should be able to spawn with a CLF Coordinator (CO), that also spawns with a perma kill weapon. Then being gunned down by the CLF and perma’d should be just fine with the rules.

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31

What happened that round probably fits the criteria to BE dead CLFs. There were too many, from the scope of it little to no MPs, no order. and no chance to keep terrorists efficiently brigged without swarms of CLFs B-lining brig, blowing it up and letting them go out killing again. The CLFs were a constant threat to the ship, dead or not. If they get revived and continue fighting, they’re a threat. If they’re brigged and there’s a liberation effort, they’re a threat.

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32

Isn’t all of this solved by just making a WL report if you feel a BE is incorrect?

Like, a whole system exists if you feel a BE was done wrong. If it’s approved thems the outcome and you move on with life. There’s precedent that it’s fine via CO CoC and the Rules so unless policy gets changed I don’t really see where the issue is.

CLF to me has always felt like a “yay time to frag marines” role, and if you die that’s just it. Going in as CLF expecting to live a long time is goofy ass behavior IMO. It’s a role that’s meant to be outside the main Marine/Xeno loop with express knowledge that you’re going to get meme’d on unless marines are dumb or it’s some giga-event.

People really take getting killed as some cardinal sin. Go play Xeno or observe and yap with the dchat peeps, you’re not entitled to playing a Human every waking second of being connected to a round. Sometimes you die and get left by John PVT, sometimes a Pred decaps you, sometimes you get BE’d - that’s the game.

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34

Is this true? Last I heard from an admin, ordering a Corpsman to not revive anyone (CLF, Marine, UPP, Civilian) is against the rules?

Following on from @matttheficus ^ - Survivor is very much a TDM role and not a RP role, expecting people to facilitate RP after wiping FOB + Alamo + attempting (or succeeding) at wiping CIC is a little weird

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35

Hello,

I’d like to kindly remind everyone to follow Forum Etiquette, in other words - please stop low quality posts. They do not contribute any tangible or beneficial information to the topic being discussed.

Therefore, I’ve been forced to delete low-quality shitposts, and increase the topic timer to 4 hours. Please think about how your posts affects the conversation thoroughly.

Rule Explanation & Clarification

Now, I’d like to add the following:

  • No one is allowed to remove anyone forcibly from the round, with the following exceptions:

Queen’s Banishment, Battlefield Executions, Authorized Executions and Warrior’s ability, are exceptions to this rule and are evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

  • What does case-by-case basis mean?
    • It is the malicious removal of another player from the round through one of the four methods above for;
      • no good reason
      • OOC grudge (in some rare cases IC)
      • to be a dick
      • some obscure reason I have failed to list here
    • If you do not have one of the above abilities, you’re not allowed to remove people from the round.

I believe some people may have further questions regarding the above, I’m not certain but it is an answer the cannot satisfy everyone - and this is just the reality of it. I’m just laying it as is.

Now, if you’re part of the Colonial Liberation Front, you’re not required to drag people to get them revived after you kill them. I’ve seen some people do this, it is good faith - thank you.

You’re not required to do it - if you don’t want to do it.

I believe this is where many people have an issue, because of a misunderstanding of the rule. “I do it, why don’t they do it?”. There you have it - not a requirement.

Gameloop

I will add, the Military Police game-loop could use work - attacking MPs or the gameloop is not the solution.

Trying to speak to Maintainers to figure out how to improve it and contributing through it to the codebase is the way forward.

Giving Marines a reason to arrest CLF is something that needs work - some asteroid with a ship to mine resources or look for certain items maybe? :man_shrugging:

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36

The thing that bothers me about this is more the inconsistency where it’s considered griefing for anyone else to perma corpses but is for some reason ok for the CO.
But I was thinking about how xenos are not allowed to wall off bodies, yet queen can gib. That obviously feels very different.
Xenos walling off bodies falls under Rule 6: Metagaming. It makes sense that queen gib is allowed because it’s a mechanic created with the express purpose of gibbing marines, of course it’s not metagaming to gib someone as queen.
I think the weird part about BEing enemies is that marines forcibly permaing people falls under Rule 4: Griefing. It becomes a bit harder to justify that the CO is allowed to grief people due to being a whitelisted role.
The best argument I can think of in response is that permaing enemies is one of the intended purposes of BE, just like queen gib, but is that really true? I’ve always been under the impression that BE exists to round remove those on your own side, to deal with griefers or anyone that needs to be gotten rid of.

If you read the CO code of conduct it says:

The Commanding Officer may perform Battlefield Executions. This means they may personally execute anyone under their authority on the ship or Area of Operations without warning or procedure unless in MP Custody, provided their words or actions fulfil one of the following conditions:

Note the phrase “under their authority”.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting that but doesn’t that sound like the point of BE is to be used on your own side? I don’t see it mention anywhere using it on enemies.

I think if permaing enemies is an intended purpose of BE, that should probably be made clear in the CO code of conduct. And if that isn’t the intended purpose, then it should probably be considered griefing just like if a marine were to behead an enemy.

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38

I am absolutely okay with dying naturally, through being shot and watching my perma timer expire while my teammate ignores me and goes around the ship cluelessly. This is something you accept with time as you play surv or roll hostile ERTs, death is inevitable and that is okay. What I am not okay with is people round removing me right after I drop dead without any chance for the medic to revive me. What I am even more not okay with is my entire team getting round removed second we drop dead.
I would accept CO giving me a last word and ability to spit in his face for that HRP value before he blows my head out, whenever I get eventually felled and captured, but I dont want to be shooting marines one moment and then being out of the game the other. One thing I would compare this to is a warrior grabbing your corpse after you die, aiming head and pulling at it to round remove you the moment you have died behind resin doors.

Feels bad when you cant do it to the other team, but the other team can easily put you out of the game. Could be solved by adding BE tools to CLF CO and adding him to every insert\first CLF ERT, but doesnt solve the problem of other hostile factions in a normal round, like hostile freelancers, hostile UPP or possibly hostile PMCs spawned by an event due to some CL shenanigans.

I agree with this, there should be rewards given for capturing CLF personel alive. While making them basically slaves would be funny, maybe giving tech points\req budget and sending some kind of ERT to extract the off-ship could work as well. CMB or Provost landing a shuttle to capture and transport them on a station in which CLF survs could chill out and RP with folks who rolled ERT or try a prisonbreak and capture the station for CLF(possibly even influencing hijack ERTs).

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39

Thank you for clarifying this.

Send the CLF to The Rura Penthe mines.

40

This goes back to my statement of ERTs and Survivors not being part of the core gameplay loop of the round. You’re not expected to live nor integral to the rest of the round - therefore, you go into those roles with the knowledge that you might only exist for 2 minutes before getting perma’d.

Yes, I agree that if you like playing these roles it sucks a bit, but as per current policy and design (from my perspective at least) that’s just how the cards are dealt. You could make the same argument (that I did in discord, frankly, after 20 CLF were spawned on us for a “””tiebreaker””” in a 4 hour round) that getting CLF’d randomly isn’t fun for marines either. It’s a PVP game, sometimes you die randomly and it sucks and I’m never playing CM again (until next round of course).

I think clarification that the Marine/Xeno loop is the intended “drivers” of a round, and other factions don’t have the same abilities such as BEs due to this, from a design standpoint would do well to curb any issues people might have.

Does this stink for ERT enjoyers/Survivor players? Sure. I can see the argument. But for the majority of players you won’t see this as an issue as they don’t interact outside of “ooooooo time to frag my friends for the lolz”. It’s an edge case that has been ruled on 2 (maybe 3?) times in the past day or so, and I doubt that ruling from Staff is going to change.

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41

Revives are (unfortunately) core to the gameplay loop, xenos walling in a corpse is not griefing, it’s specifically listed as metagaming, the walls aren’t meant for permaing people. You are additionally still fighting to permanently kill the marines, it is the specific objective of both sides to annihilate the other and “remove them from the round”, walling their corpses in just isn’t an intended way to do so. CLF are not part of the core gameplay loop, revives aren’t even necessarily a part of their gameplay either, they are a separate thing from Marines VS Xenos and drawing comparisons between them just doesn’t work as an argument.

Also yes I think revives shouldn’t be a thing, it’s just sadly unfeasible with how PvP works.

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42

forbid the thought of guerilla fighters using ambush tactics and darkness. Why don’t these barely armored underequipped civvies not go toe to toe with the marines on their ship???

43

I’m just saying if you slime people out of the darkness then you can’t be suprised when get pissed off and go out of their way to make sure you go perma. The CO BEing CLF is just an extension of that. Which sucks because there IS roleplay potential there.

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44

This sounds like actually war.

45

getting attacked from the dark doesn’t RR you, its just using the tools your faction has (night vision)
and the mass BE of CLF doesn’t happen when they skirmish and snipe from the dark, its happens on the Almayer

46

The post that got this thread started is literally just a guy mad he got robusted by an MP with a flashbang, and mad that he got executed by the CO after he tried to breach CIC to wordlessly murder command staff.

You got killed by the hostile faction and they dared not to bring you back so you could try and grab a gun to shoot the medic that healed you or kill the MP stuck guarding you. What a biggie. Respawn is in a few minutes next round.

“Round removing people for existing and doing their role’s intended purpose is LRP..” Buckle up guys because executing the terrorist death squad that tried to burst in CIC to gun down you and your staff is now LRP, yes.

And yeah, whitelisted roles are powerful each in their own way, that’s why you make sure you’re not alone if you are keeping a Yautja bracer or are trying to kill the CO, because both of those roles can send you to Brazil in a few clicks. Otherwise yeah, it’s unfair but that’s nothing new or bad. All roles aren’t equal.

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