Hostile Survivors and the definition of 'Consistently Hostile'

General Policy Feedback
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Hi there, this is undoubtably a response to previous posts but the rules surrounding the rules where to maintain hostility you must be ‘consistently hostile’ but what it should include is exceptions to this or circumstances where you will not be penalized for irregular circumstances I.E you shouldn’t be forced to start killing the people reviving you from death just because of this rule.

Its not conducive to RP if you are expected to kill everyone despite their courtesy. A rational person would not start stabbing the person that just revived them.

An example from the topic ‘Hostile CLF Fuckin Rule’ My circumstances were that I was loaded onto the Alamo dead and revived in an operating room, I had no choice to accept the help, but it does not make sense that I HAVE TO kill them or try to kill them in that instance.

It wouldn’t make sense person-wise and its a real insult to the doctors who are just doing their job. Any CLF in their right mind would recognize not to look a gift horse in the mouth and move on.

My only suggestion is that the definition of ‘consistently hostile’ be expanded upon and the EXCEPTIONS be made clear.

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It’s not rational to kill people in general, but when it comes to doctors and their patients. Around 20 US doctors die due to their patients killing them, and about 18.000 get assulted PER WEEK!. Now this is counting in every single medical personel and is mostly about civilians on doctors.

So saying its unrealistic, or that not killing doctors should be an exception, its all just “cope” about how you want to skip people since it wasn’t optimal, and the optimal way got you several kills.

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This is true, but unfortunately CLF need to be clear. If he is friendly one second, and hostile the next, it’s hard from a gameplay perspective. Gameplay takes precedence over roleplay/logic on hostile survs.

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hostile surv should be removed entirely

it’s almost never used for RP, it’s not fun for the marine that gets shot and fracced 3+ times from the darkness roundstart because the CLF has NVGs and a basira, it’s fun for all of 30 seconds for the CLF who has to rush the NVG and then get a tarp and AFK in a bush for the next 20 minutes (before they get fragged and have to sit out the rest of the round), it’s not fun for staff who would have to deal with an ahelp if someone got sufficiently upset

(though maybe this is more of an ideasguys post rather than a policy feedback post, i’m not entirely sure)

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Good evening Keaton. I hope you are doing well. I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I do not think entire removal is a good idea. Hopefully some good can come of this discussion.

Have a great night and if I do not speak to you before hand, have a fantastic Thanksgiving.

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“Improve, not remove” rears its ugly head.
Hostile surv will stay in the current limbo.

No EXCEPTIONS. Not a single one. How the fuck somebody is supposed to know that you are hostile and they are free to engage you without risking OOC punishment?

How hostile surv differs from a friendly one? How to spot hostile CLF surv and friendly hostile CLF surv? Both can stroll the ship. But if I shoot the second guy on sight, I get pinged, possibly banned. If I don’t shoot the first guy on sight, I get killed, possibly perma’ed in a split second.

Literally NO EXCEPTIONS. You were hostile, got killed by marines and they were kind (but also clumsy) enough to revive you instead stabbing your head 100 times with bayonets till it popped and then rolled on the ground, so that your body can be thrown onto barricades as a trophy? Then be that fucking rational HPR CLF member and accept your second chance that fate has given you to pay for your sins (and taxes you didn’t wanted to pay in the first place you commie).

A rational person would not fight with other humans when bigger danger is present. You can bet that even the hardest, most devoted, most fanatical terrorist who hates America and such, would gladly fight side by side and act friendly, when literall space aliens came to Earth to conquer it, bigger threat, enemy of my enemy is my friend.

All this stupid talk about “rationality” when it is lone CLF vs military ship full of soldiers, while on a planet full of aliens, that killed your fellow CLF pals and other fucking colonists.
In what world the “rational” person would hide in a bush just to kill soldiers who RESPOND TO THE DISTRESS SIGNAL TO FIGHT THE SAME ALIENS THAT KILLED COLONISTS AND YOUR CLF PAL?

Going hostile at this point means you roleplay a total wacko, psycho who hates US/USCM so hard that he is willing to help fucking aliens, the same aliens who would fuck him up if they ever catched a glimpse of him. So that is why that you should stab a doctor as soon as you opened your eyes.

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Right so, to solve knowing if a CLF is hostile or not is to be given info about it wether it’s an MP escorting a CLF (Why would a hostile CLF be revived without being supervised and expected to be ally with the marines). If the CLF is wearing CLF uniform on a UCSM ship without an MP, they are expected to be hostile, no? We have rules that do not allow wearing opposing factions armour to attack the people you are wearing the uniform of. If anything an announcement stating that “HOSTILE CLF ON SHIP” or supervising and forcing the CLF survivor to take UCSM uniform or be permabrigged.
This is the take on hostile survivors.

(If a CLF that took UCSM uniform then finds a CLF uniform, they should be allowed to be hostile again, this is due to the fact that MPs should have confiscated the old uniform and prevent it from being taken)

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Im talking into an echo chamber of people who are going to be contrarian to me for the sole reason that i killed them one round. I am just saying the rules of CLF surv need to be expanded upon so half my gameplay isn’t A-helps and getting permission to BE A TERRORIST as A TERRORIST.

I don’t want to flame war with a guy named ‘Rainbow Stalin’ who looks up hospital homicide statistics for a 2d Colonial Marines game. I want to help make CLF survivor a better role to play and play against by expanding on its rules so the game is more FUN and ENJOYABLE for people.

This isn’t a war, it is a video game, and I like this game and want it to be more fun for myself and others.

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Rational cabal post. I know I argued about realism in my acid goop thread but when you think about it from this perspective, yeah

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Nope. You can wear it during regular rounds. During those rounds this rule only applies to hostile survs. As a marine you can wear whatever you want and only face MPs for breaking ML, but OOC it is kosher.

If nobody bothered to restrain them, then I can surerly see CIC giving out an annoucement not untill half of the shipside is dead already.

Whole issue is really about the only one situation - CLF getting killed and then revived without restrains on Almayer.
Mechanical fix would be to not allow CLF to be revived by marines. Perfect fix in my opinion. Easy, fast and leaves no room for any further issues.

You don’t have to. If you are CONSISTENTLY HOSTILE there is no need for any A-help to get premission to be a terrorist as a terrorist.
If you want to game the rules, though, then yes, you need admeme premission to break’em.

It already is. It is FUN and ENJOYABLE for marines who get to shoot and kill you. It is enjoyable for MPs who get to actually bother and restrain your ass before revival, so that they can lock you up and then abuse.
It is enjoyable for shipside RP roles who don’t have to bother with powergaming hostile surv.
Be aware that shipside agent was removed. Agent, who had 0 lethal objectives and was still bound to server escalation rules, was REMOVED.

If it is not a war, why you are fighting so hard for that one aspect of a hostile surv that banks on few players incompetence, to allow you to slaughter half the shipside and fuck groundside marines over. Something that only whitelisted CO maybe can do, but not really that much on purpose.

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to be honest, if im a hostile clf id try everything in my power to get on board the almayer and sabo it, at least it would give the mps somethin to do

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@Lemon_general I agree that CLF antagonism can be fun, but what’s unfun is when it’s unreliable and unexpected. As a game, people expect to have a fighting chance in most situations - and as almost no one prepares for a hostile CLF, because why would they until it’s too late (it’s so rare of an issue), that fighting chance usually isn’t there.

Servers that allow murderbone antags like ye old Hippie did so with the understanding by every other player that murderbone antags exist. The current rule situation is meant to give people a heads up that hey, there’s gonna be some HVH coming your way

This is an unnecessary value judgement to make and I think you should take a step back. I don’t think we should read malice into the OP

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Attack the argument and not the person. Sorry for bothering some guy named “Lemon General”.

From this being made during an active player report, and to where he has stated very specificly that he didn’t want to be consistently hostile since it would’t make sense to him, I have gathered my points directly from them.

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Yeah, sorry mate, I’ve been sick with bronchitis and other crap these past couple weeks and it’s made me a sore-ass so for that I apologize.

I lost a bit of my cool there on my last post but in any case I think that the term ‘consistently hostile’ needs to be reworded to ‘if hostile REMAIN hostile’ because consistent and always are different. Consistent doesn’t mean that you do it all the time every time, it just means that you do it so much that its expected.

It’s really complicated but I want it to be easier to follow the rules because in my head during that round I had spent most of groundside time killing marines and I thought ‘These guys MUST know im hostile, right?’

But apparently nobody on the ship cared enough to announce it or arrest me and so that led me to a weird place of “oh i’m in the hospital and uncuffed, I don’t have my gun so this is a weird situation’ so I left” and I probably should’ve been clearer but why am i going to give myself away when im in broad daylight as a CLF and nobody has a clue because of THEIR incompetence.

This case was very weird in general but I don’t think the solution is to stab the fucking doctors.
I will give on the fact that I wasn’t as clear with the CL but in my mind i was like “I’m a terrorist, why do I need to give them notice before I shoot em” because it was my understanding that people knew i was a hostile CLF. I wasn’t trying to hide anything.

At the same time people dont like it when i kill them either so it just feels like a losing game to even play CLF surv. It feels like you’re destined to die or go to perma with no end-goal.

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I’m going to be real with you, if you had just attacked anyone in your way to the gun, I would have no argument, nor any reason, to say you were in the wrong. Hell, i respected a CLF that just instantly PBd the doctor that revived him and went on a shooting spree from medical to charlie prep.

For me, its just that you didn’t want to game ruin the guy that revived you, since he was being nice to you. That by itself contradicts itself when you go out of your way to go gameruin the one guy who cannot defend himself, while also being wierdly isolated. Same thing if you had just rushed the CE in his office, permaing him.

I mean, would you have liked it if you were on the other end of the stick? Wake up as CL, get told they found alive survivors, greet one, and instantly get permad since he could. Would you find it any fun at all? I get I wasn’t part of the entire incident, but I cannot ignore the blatant lack of empathy there.

Edit: Personally, I don’t see a reason for CLF existing outside of nightmare scenarios. Because usualy you either just go perma from marines either using you as a trophy or not wanting to revive you, or that you get stuck in perma brig until game end, with a rare chance like this where you just go on and shoot up the place, making the round worse for everyone else included.

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I actually walked up to the button to open it so they could find him but then i heard people outside so I hesitated and backed away but I figured someone would’ve probably busted in because I wasn’t exactly quiet.

That’s where I think I was wrong on that personally. I was also having to think fast because i didn’t know if i was just gonna be flashbang spammed at any moment.

I do agree that I should have at least held him up which is the thing I did the next round something like this happened but that time i made it abundantly clear and everyone knew i was hostile. (Funny enough coincidentally he was the CL that same round)

My argument is against the engaging the doctor that just saved me. Sometimes you have to suspend disbelief when you’re playing this game because I don’t wanna just be PBing doctors (which I couldn’t cause I had no gun) I think the difference between a Corpsman and a doctor is one is in more civilian-looking attire and aren’t armored and have no gun.

If it was a corpsman I wouldn’t have hesitated. The CL was on purpose because he had influence and most likely would have the stuff i needed, he was a strategic target. I could’ve handled the CL better but they were a strategic target.

Its not that I didn’t feel empathy for the CL, I was just in a real big rush and was paranoid that I would get killed or arrested at any moment.

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The general rule of thumb for hostile survivors, insofar as I personally operate, is that once a CLF operative has been killed, but then revived in marine custody, that they have two main outcomes which impact their hostile faction status.

  1. If the CLF is uncuffed, and if they get up and resume being hostile to the USCM, they retain their hostile faction status. If they do not resume being hostile, they lose their hostile faction status.
  2. If the CLF is cuffed, then it is impossible for them to continue being consistently hostile (outside of sheer incompetence where the USCM let the CLF flee and break out of the cuffs).

Most of the time, a CLF who is killed and revived is going to lose their hostile status due to it being impossible to remain consistently hostile.

Is it ‘fair’ that a CLF has to murder/attempt to murder a medic or doctor? The answer is that war and insurgencies are not fair, but also its a necessary component of our hostile survivor rules.

In my opinion, I feel that it remains the best scenario that a CLF needs to be hostile towards all USCM personnel to retain their hostile faction status to ensure there is no ambiguity. I think this speaks more to how difficult, or dare I say badly implemented, the system of a hostile survivor is, but this is more a code issue than an administrative one.

All of this is my personal opinion.

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aye have had this view of the hostile rule applied to me be before and i am pretty sure it was not you that had gave me the go ahead.

so what happen i was killed battling the uscm ground side, got defibed cuffed and tossed on the Alamo but for some reason my follow survs saw fit to free me from my cuffs, funny i think it may have been the skinwalker(Synth) that uncuffed me.

anyhow i fled to the backrooms, Ahelped about what happened and after short chat about it the adman gave me the clear to go kill happy. Got a good few kills before the MTs ganged up and hunted me down with great skill.

i frankly think its fair game at lest from my personal opinion my only issue is if CLF kills civvies/survs and franky from my point of view its hard to tell some times if the doctor is USCM or survs, that being said if they are give care to the USCM troops they are fair game but not i say try to not kill doctors that are not clearly giveing aid to the USCM.

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Imma be honest i agree with cabal on this one.

Maybe if it started as HvH and THEN the hive was introduced i could get behind it.

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