Then how do you deal with the ship being full of humans who outnumber the xeno in votes and will likely say no.
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To be fair, if the practice of hijack being skipped becomes norm, people who want, would make their last stands on the ground. Alongside xenos, who would throw themselfs at evacing DS much harder.
But then that anihilates hijack completly, everyone who doesn’t want hijack, returns to the ship and this alongside shipside crew will outnumber xenos most likely.
In a game where both sides have roughly the same ammount of players that is correct. But CM isn’t one. If you got a vote each round which side should get a boon this round, marines would win that vote every time. Is that fair for xenos?
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Both of you are assuming xenos want to play hijack and marines don’t, from what I’ve seen this just isn’t true, I’ve seen plenty of hijack hating from both sides. I myself only play xeno at this point (though not extremely often) and yet still don’t want to play hijack. On top of this, it is still the majority of people getting what they want, even if all marines vote no and all xenos vote yes. The boon comparison also doesn’t make sense, the xenos don’t gain a benefit from playing hijack, nor do marines lose something (other than your time, but that’s both sides).
While you may be right about opinions without the vote as of now. What do you do when the eventuality comes when 100 humans are shipside vs 20 xenoes planetside? Do you make the humans shipside the monopoly on voting on what should happen next? And what do you do if 40 humans shipside dosn’t want hijack to happen, but the 30 xenoes planetside do? Why give xenoes a vote if it may as well have been thrown into the void?
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Honestly, TGMC kinda has the right idea of having capture points that supply the operation and even before I’ve seen that and started on CM, I felt it was odd that CM didn’t have some sort of resourcing goal to go after. Most RTS/Stratagy games have some sort of resource goal. (And yes, this is like an RTS, just commanding the units are like herding cats) Natural Selection 2 comes to mind.
Regardless. We’ve tried to have a system like this, the techweb, for research and special gear. It made marines way too powerful, too quickly. Which is why holding comms, sensor tower, some key points on a map, gathering intel, xeno bodies. Should be what fund requisitions, instead of a techweb system.
Pretty much give req a starting initial budget of 20k - 30k, based on pop, like the old days, but they don’t get a dime more until comms and other locations are capped. Xeno bodies, depending on the tier and type, brought back to the ship give small bonuses. Processing disks in intel can randomly give funding bonuses. Instead of just Intel points.
Would this make my job harder? Absofuckinglutely! Would this give marines more incentive to push and hold shit so they can get AP ammo, mats, and grenades? Most likely. Also it would make giving req budget infusions a bit more viable as well.
(Don’t remove the cashback form crates and forms though)
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This, again, makes no sense to me, each individual Xeno gets a vote, each individual Marine gets a vote, these two factions are not monoliths composed of entirely agreeing opinions, they do not vote as one. I have seen Marines who hate hijack and Marines who love hijack, Xenos who hate it and Xenos who love it, it is not as simple as “well Marines outnumber Xenos so therefore hijack will never happen and that’s super unfair to the Xenos who all LOVE hijack!”.
Because you have to assume every person votes in their interest. Lets say 100 marines evac at 00:45. They wanna fight more since they barely got to play. But the remaining 20 xenoes absolutely dread having to fight 100 people shipside and would rather the game just end. This is a very simple way of looking at how people think, and could be muddled with “lets just go next instead” from marines, and “I want a challange” from xenoes. But in any case, those 20 xenoes votes won’t actually matter as long as there isn’t a devicive split among the marine votes. It is litterary 2 wolves and a sheep voting for what they should eat, praying the wolf would not vote the sheep.
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In most scenarios I argue that this would be the case. Most of xenos wanting hijack and most of marines not. Because hijack decision happens when marines were forced to abandon the planet, so outside of specific sitation where xenos forced marines out by sheer psychological warfare (early evac) then xenos are fairly strong, they already won and might want to just have a second go at slaughtering marines shipside.
That is also the best case scenario for hijack getting voted in a regular round, all of xenos want that, but marines got beaten hard and great majority of them don’t.
Your assumption is that both sides don’t want hijack like ever, so by that logic vote is pointless, just remove hijack. In my opinion xenos are more likely to want hijack (just to gain boner from killing noob PVTs due to all robust marines dying groundside), while marines are more likely to not want it and since they almost always outnumber xenos, often times 2:1, their vote will weight down everything else. That is if only living vote. Ghosts are also CM players like we all are, should we restrict them from having a voice? If we give them one, the great majority will vote for skipping hijack, that is an objective fact.
Xenos do gain a benefit from playing hijack. If marines are very weak (few in numbers, robust players in dchat) then hijacking is just a PvE slaughter satisfying xeno murderboner. And marines lose something in this scenario, they get to die without being able to put much fight which isn’t enjoyable.
I argue that majority of surviving marines post evac don’t want hijack, because they got beaten. They couldn’t stop xenos from breaking FoB and killing them inside while having CAS/OB/Mortar at their disposal. The morale is low.
That is why I propose to give CO and Queen the option to cast a vote. If both agree, then they both think they have a good fighting chance during hijack. If one of them don’t, then it will solve the issue of total wipes of any side during hijack.
Might as well poke admemes to make a vote each round that doesn’t do anything, but just gathers infromation. Every time Queens hijack DS, a vote appears for everyone (who is alive): “If the possibility to skip this part of the round was available, would you like it to happen this round?”. This should give more, or less accurate data.
It’s all about minority. Every individual xeno can vote, so can every individual marine. Best way I can explain it is that spawn rate for xeno and marine is 1 xeno for every 3 marine. So when a vote happen the vote is rigged because there is 3 times more of marines than xenos. So individually the marines will already win the vote, specially if its early evac just by spawn ratio of 1:3 xeno pr marine. 1:5 for shipside roles. So what they are trying to explain is that the vote is going to be what marines want and not xeno at all, honestly what xeno vote is going to drown in the marines vote. because marines will always outnumber the xenos in votes. So its a one side vote system. I don’t really know a better way to explain it. That’s why I like solid answer so good.
[quote=“Steelpoint, post:39, topic:16505”]
I’ve always felt giving the Xenos the choice on proceeding or declining to attempt hijack would be the fairest way to proceed. By doing this you account for all possible contingencies, such as if marines retreated too early, or if the xenos really don’t feel up to the task, or they just want to get to the next round.
[/quote]
I am bad at quoting apparently, sorry about that. But I hope it clears it up for you.
Every co that evac early want to justify the early evac. So he will say yes to hijack, they have the numbers. Queen say no. Should co deside what the entire xeno side should do at that point? I managed to quote, go me.
CO says yes, Queen says no, so no. Both have to agree for hijack to happen, so this specific situation is covered, Queen feels this evac was too early and marines are too powerfull, a punishment for them is that Queen doesn’t hijack and round ends, all of their prep time is wasted. Next time they might learn that evacing too early might not grant them easy shipside xeno wipe.
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So honestly what you say is to give CO a option, but it does not really matter what he do anywhy. OH, I get it. So IF it was early evac queen have to say yes to make early evac hijack happen. And if CO want to pack the bags after early evac and admit they lost. Its over. But.. BUT if he say yes the Queen could ask the hive to skip or not if CO agree to continue in that time, so the round didn’t feel unfinished. I like that. I like that alot infact. I honestly love that thought. You are thinking way out of the box Cabal. I love it more than steelpoint because then you honestly give the xeno to continue if CO approve it. This is honestly going places. I never thought it in that way before, I am impressed. @Steelpoint what you think? Not that hijack ever going to change anywhy. I think that is the golden answer.
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Holy based
I think this makes a lot of sense and should probably be implemented.
could do it as a percentage based system. whatever the pop of a faction is, you make up a certain percentage of it, so when you vote, that much percent goes towards the vote
so if there are 100 marines and 30 xenos, each marine vote is 1 percent, and each xeno vote is 3. Make it directly proportional to pop and whatever it comes out to will decide if the faction votes yes/no, with an option of a revote if it’s within a very close margin
Make this as a separate idea guys post